1. After reading “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock” more than once, as well as both critical responses, I am more inclined to agree with Brown’s interpretation. Her analysis deals mainly with the ambiguity expressed in the poem. There is no concrete direction in Prufrock’s song, and in fact there are several instances of contradiction where his musings are filled with uncertainty and doubt. Prufrock repeatedly asks himself ‘How should I presume?’ (61) and ‘How should I begin?’ (70), indicating that he is having trouble making a concrete decision and acting upon it. Brown also mentions the use of hyperbole as a function of the language of romantic love. This hyperbole highlights both Prufrock’s desire and his fear, again reinforcing the ambiguous undertones present in the piece. These divergent responses to the romantic love that Prufrock agonizes over are indicative of the emotion itself. Romantic love is both fleeting and steadfast and Brown uses this concept to make a strong case for the basis of Prufrock’s meditations. I very much agree with this interpretation because I think Prufrock is unsure of what he really wants and what he can actually handle in terms of a relationship. Brown clarifies the meaning of some of the more colloquial lines in the poem and opens up another level of interpretation based on the same general understanding of the ‘Love Song’.
5. The affairs themselves do not have as much to do with the story as the emotions of the characters. The only married person who is not either directly involved or inferred to be involved in an affair is Bobinôt, Calixta’s husband. Calixta sleeps with Alcée, and Clarisse, Alcée’s wife enjoys the “pleasant liberty of her maiden days” (658) while she is on holiday with her children. While that may not be direct indication of an affair, it is a clear indication that she is enjoying some time away from her husband. Affairs are not always about sex. While that may be a big part of it, Chopin wants the reader to realize that there is more involved than the simple act. Many times affairs are about release, they are used as a means of injecting some excitement and passion into an otherwise listless and enclosed life. There is a distinct difference between cheating, which is more purely sexual in nature, and an affair, which is more involved and emotionally based than the straightforward act of cheating. Calixta and Alcée clearly knew each other in a fairly intimate capacity before they were married, and are both very happy in their current married lives. That does not mean, however, that their married life is their only life. Both men and women have many differing roles; wife, mother, husband, provider, father, teacher, and much less often, passionate human being. Chopin wants to show her audience that passion is just as important, if not more so, than any of those other roles. Both of the characters implicitly involved in the affair are very attentive to their families, and genuinely so. Calixta is very much concerned for the health and well being of her husband and child after the storm, and Alcée exhibits feelings of “tender solitude” (658) towards his wife after having slept with another woman. If anything, this affair reinvigorated the relationships that the participants have with their respective families. There are many dimensions to this story and there are many reasons for people to have and conceal affairs. Chopin gives the reader a blank slate on which to work out their feelings about the issue and possibly learn something about how they hold themselves captive under societal mores.
Monday, August 31, 2009
Discussion Questions Week#2
2. Discuss “Rose for Emily” in light of the title: What significance does the “rose” hold? Where in the text do you see a rose . . . or do you? Explain your observations and ideas.
A Rose for Emily by William Faulkner could reflect different views as to what the story may be about. On one end the title could give the impression of a sort of love story because the significance of the rose could be of romanticism. The rose holds a tremendous significance in the story. Depending on someone’s views may stand for different concepts. I believe the rose symbolizes Homer. Emily’s father always wanted the best for her and Homer was what was best for her. She received a rose that brought along love and compassion. At the same I also think that the rose could signify death. Most funerals involve flowers, and in this case the rose stands for her last goodbye. She wanted to live love and compassion and she was afraid of what was to come when Homer wouldn’t return. Even though a rose was never present in the story itself it did show that a rose has a deeper meaning than just a simple symbol. Also it is difficult to tell what Emily was really like or trying to prove because the townspeople cannot be reliable. They did not have the same interactions as Emily did and were not in the house with her to see exactly what was occurring. This could change the meanings left behind by Emily.
6. From your text (and you may answer this one in first-person as it invites a “reader-response”-themed response. “Are you bothered by [“The Storm’s”] happy ending? Are stories supposed to reinforce the dominant values of a society? What do you think would (or should) have happened in real life?” (658)
Honestly I am not bothered by the happy ending. I think it is good to change things up a bit. Not everything has to end negatively because of a wrongful action. Stories are to be used and created for creative purposes and imagination. If every story was written as what dominant values society has there would be no fun in using your imagination and creating something different. We can see our values occur in real life and have to read what we already know should happen or be like takes away from the story. In real life, this situation could have gone two ways. The first way could have been just like the in the story, maybe no one would have found out about what happened between Calixta and Alcee. They would have never mentioned it and live their happy lives. The other way it could have went down in real life is that the husband and wife would have found out and end their happy lives. Each character would have divorced or separated creating problems between themselves. It was unclear why Calixta made her decision but in a story I believe it is okay not show that because it gives a different side to dominant values society has set upon.
A Rose for Emily by William Faulkner could reflect different views as to what the story may be about. On one end the title could give the impression of a sort of love story because the significance of the rose could be of romanticism. The rose holds a tremendous significance in the story. Depending on someone’s views may stand for different concepts. I believe the rose symbolizes Homer. Emily’s father always wanted the best for her and Homer was what was best for her. She received a rose that brought along love and compassion. At the same I also think that the rose could signify death. Most funerals involve flowers, and in this case the rose stands for her last goodbye. She wanted to live love and compassion and she was afraid of what was to come when Homer wouldn’t return. Even though a rose was never present in the story itself it did show that a rose has a deeper meaning than just a simple symbol. Also it is difficult to tell what Emily was really like or trying to prove because the townspeople cannot be reliable. They did not have the same interactions as Emily did and were not in the house with her to see exactly what was occurring. This could change the meanings left behind by Emily.
6. From your text (and you may answer this one in first-person as it invites a “reader-response”-themed response. “Are you bothered by [“The Storm’s”] happy ending? Are stories supposed to reinforce the dominant values of a society? What do you think would (or should) have happened in real life?” (658)
Honestly I am not bothered by the happy ending. I think it is good to change things up a bit. Not everything has to end negatively because of a wrongful action. Stories are to be used and created for creative purposes and imagination. If every story was written as what dominant values society has there would be no fun in using your imagination and creating something different. We can see our values occur in real life and have to read what we already know should happen or be like takes away from the story. In real life, this situation could have gone two ways. The first way could have been just like the in the story, maybe no one would have found out about what happened between Calixta and Alcee. They would have never mentioned it and live their happy lives. The other way it could have went down in real life is that the husband and wife would have found out and end their happy lives. Each character would have divorced or separated creating problems between themselves. It was unclear why Calixta made her decision but in a story I believe it is okay not show that because it gives a different side to dominant values society has set upon.
Supplemental: Lecture on “Story of an Hour” (audio lecture)
I cannot find the audio lecture for this.
Is it just me or is it not posted yet?
please help
Is it just me or is it not posted yet?
please help
Discussion Questions Week 2 Reed Steiner
Discussion Questions Week 2
3. Yes, disturbed people can be in love. Emily from "A Rose for Emily" by William Faulkner is genuinely in love. In fact Emily loved so much that her love became an obsession and the obsession became an unhealthy mania. Initially in the story she is depicted by a townsperson as the , not so typical, old woman slowly going senile. Emily had fallen into a deep depression after her fiancé and father dies so she shuts the world, and does not come out of her home.
Emily is so effect by love that she cannot bare it. It is certainly not healthy to love someone so much that when they die they shut themselves out. Depression, in a sense, is actually normal when love is lost. I'm quite positive that if depression did not follow it would be considered abnormal. There are accounts that even Abraham Lincoln dug up his son a week after he was put in the grave because he was so heartbroken and distraught. It is not that digging up a grave is normal behavior. When people fall under extreme depression and hopelessness that they often times would act in ways not considered to be healthy.
Emily is one of those people. She is driven to insanity by the men that she lost. Finally, after she is older, Emily, falls in love with a man by the name of Homer Barron. The happy couple become engaged, but one day he disappears. By this time, Emily no longer knows how to behave as a ordinary human being. Many years go by and Emily dies. This is when we find out how crazy she really was. Homers dead body is found in and old dusty room, and it appears as though Emily slept alongside the dead body.
Emily loved more than a normal being, not the other way around. If she didn't love then she would not have gone insane in the first place. She loved so much that should could no longer cope. By the end of the story her normal perceptions of love became distorted, and she loved selfishly. So selfishly, that in fear she of losing Homer, she killed him.
6. Yes, I am bothered by "The Storm" by Kate Chopin's happy ending. Most people like stories with "happy endings", but in this case there should be someone left unhappy. No, there is not a moral message sent in this story which is the case in most themes. When people have happy marriages, they just do not go out and cheat on there spouse. Normally there is a problem with the one or both of the people in the marriage. Maybe the husband or wife is board, feel unloved, or need to feel young.
Clarisse, the unfaithful partner in "The Storm", seems to really be in love with her husband, Bobinot. Even after her sexual encounter with another man she does not feel ashamed. She did not even let on that something happened while Bobinot was away with their son, Bibi. Life just continuous on happily for the family. The message or theme that Chopin is trying to portray is that women should be free of men. Clarisse does whatever she wants and does not tell her husband a thing. At first it seems strange, but then after analyzing Chopin and think about her typical theme it makes more sense.
However, I do not think that this happens often in real life. Most accounts of unfaithfulness does not result in happiness. If it did polygamy and open marriages would seem normal in our culture. Chopin unusual themes is what makes her so good and sets her aside from other writers.
3. Yes, disturbed people can be in love. Emily from "A Rose for Emily" by William Faulkner is genuinely in love. In fact Emily loved so much that her love became an obsession and the obsession became an unhealthy mania. Initially in the story she is depicted by a townsperson as the , not so typical, old woman slowly going senile. Emily had fallen into a deep depression after her fiancé and father dies so she shuts the world, and does not come out of her home.
Emily is so effect by love that she cannot bare it. It is certainly not healthy to love someone so much that when they die they shut themselves out. Depression, in a sense, is actually normal when love is lost. I'm quite positive that if depression did not follow it would be considered abnormal. There are accounts that even Abraham Lincoln dug up his son a week after he was put in the grave because he was so heartbroken and distraught. It is not that digging up a grave is normal behavior. When people fall under extreme depression and hopelessness that they often times would act in ways not considered to be healthy.
Emily is one of those people. She is driven to insanity by the men that she lost. Finally, after she is older, Emily, falls in love with a man by the name of Homer Barron. The happy couple become engaged, but one day he disappears. By this time, Emily no longer knows how to behave as a ordinary human being. Many years go by and Emily dies. This is when we find out how crazy she really was. Homers dead body is found in and old dusty room, and it appears as though Emily slept alongside the dead body.
Emily loved more than a normal being, not the other way around. If she didn't love then she would not have gone insane in the first place. She loved so much that should could no longer cope. By the end of the story her normal perceptions of love became distorted, and she loved selfishly. So selfishly, that in fear she of losing Homer, she killed him.
6. Yes, I am bothered by "The Storm" by Kate Chopin's happy ending. Most people like stories with "happy endings", but in this case there should be someone left unhappy. No, there is not a moral message sent in this story which is the case in most themes. When people have happy marriages, they just do not go out and cheat on there spouse. Normally there is a problem with the one or both of the people in the marriage. Maybe the husband or wife is board, feel unloved, or need to feel young.
Clarisse, the unfaithful partner in "The Storm", seems to really be in love with her husband, Bobinot. Even after her sexual encounter with another man she does not feel ashamed. She did not even let on that something happened while Bobinot was away with their son, Bibi. Life just continuous on happily for the family. The message or theme that Chopin is trying to portray is that women should be free of men. Clarisse does whatever she wants and does not tell her husband a thing. At first it seems strange, but then after analyzing Chopin and think about her typical theme it makes more sense.
However, I do not think that this happens often in real life. Most accounts of unfaithfulness does not result in happiness. If it did polygamy and open marriages would seem normal in our culture. Chopin unusual themes is what makes her so good and sets her aside from other writers.
Assignment Submission Issues..
Hey kids :)
If anyone uses Firefox and is having trouble uploading files (like the Ancillary), its because Blackboard isn't compatible with the newest edition of Firefox - version 3.5.2. Rather than downgrading to version 2.0, which is super unsafe and buggy, its been recommended that we use IE 7 to submit files until Blackboard catches up. I know its a little late to deal with Ancillary 1, but hopefully that helps in the future :)
-Leslie
If anyone uses Firefox and is having trouble uploading files (like the Ancillary), its because Blackboard isn't compatible with the newest edition of Firefox - version 3.5.2. Rather than downgrading to version 2.0, which is super unsafe and buggy, its been recommended that we use IE 7 to submit files until Blackboard catches up. I know its a little late to deal with Ancillary 1, but hopefully that helps in the future :)
-Leslie
Sunday, August 30, 2009
Discussion One
Question Four
True Love by Szymborska is a negitive love story. I got the impression that Szymborska has been hurt by someone and no longer believes in love. I don't agree that people who are in love she hide thier feelins and act depressed sometimes to make others who are not in love feel better.
True Love by Sharon Olds to me is more of a true love story. I interpret the pharse "I know where you are with my eyes closed", as that she is so in love with him that even with her eyes closed she can feel his presence. I think that thier children being figured into this sexal poem is a symbol of what thier love made.
Question Five
To His Coy Misttess seems more sincere than To His Importunate Mistress. It seems to me that De Vries is concerd about the amount of money to takes to have a wife and a mistress. I think that De Vries poem shows that we still have the same feelings for our wives and mistress as they did way back when.
True Love by Szymborska is a negitive love story. I got the impression that Szymborska has been hurt by someone and no longer believes in love. I don't agree that people who are in love she hide thier feelins and act depressed sometimes to make others who are not in love feel better.
True Love by Sharon Olds to me is more of a true love story. I interpret the pharse "I know where you are with my eyes closed", as that she is so in love with him that even with her eyes closed she can feel his presence. I think that thier children being figured into this sexal poem is a symbol of what thier love made.
Question Five
To His Coy Misttess seems more sincere than To His Importunate Mistress. It seems to me that De Vries is concerd about the amount of money to takes to have a wife and a mistress. I think that De Vries poem shows that we still have the same feelings for our wives and mistress as they did way back when.
Into
August 23, 2009
Introduction
My name is Kelly Barnes. I am 24 years old. I have an A.A. in Social and Behavioral Science and an A.S. in Math Science. I am taking 4 classes this semester. After this year I will be transferring to CSUSB. My major is Lib. Studies. I work for Hemet Unified School district as an Instructional Aide.
Introduction
My name is Kelly Barnes. I am 24 years old. I have an A.A. in Social and Behavioral Science and an A.S. in Math Science. I am taking 4 classes this semester. After this year I will be transferring to CSUSB. My major is Lib. Studies. I work for Hemet Unified School district as an Instructional Aide.
In the story Rose for Emily the author William Faulkner makes no direct mention of a rose, nor is there an indirect reference of a rose. So the rose is a figurative rose. There are many things can be considered a rose. Emily’s beau can be considered a rose. The rose could also be her family name The Griersons. Although these could be considered “roses”, the answer may be simpler than that. The story itself is the rose for Emily. Not much is known about Emily, nor the Griersons as time has passed.
The story is pieced together from what the townspeople know of her. She came from a noble family and considered herself very esteemed. Since the truth will never be known about Emily, the rumors and tidbits of information from the community portray her life and who she was. Compiling these tidbits of information about Emily creates a story. A story that future generations will read and remember who Emily Grierson was. This story ensures that her memory will never die and that she will be remembered. The perfect rose to rest on someone’s grave.
According to the text Rose for Emily proof can be actualized that mentally ill and/or mentally disturbed individuals are capable of loving. While Emily was never formally diagnosed it was clear she had some issues. She loved her beau so much that instead of risking him leaving and never returning she would rather him stay at home in a more permanent status.
She definitely loved him or else she would not have devoted herself to going to town to purchase the things she thought he should have. Purchasing gifts is one thing, but getting a recluse to emerge from their dwelling into the public to buy presents requires love or else they wouldn’t be a recluse.
These examples from the short story are the proof the story offers that mentally disturbed people are capable of love. Even though her disturbed mind superseded her love for her beau it doesn’t deny that there was love to begin with.
The story is pieced together from what the townspeople know of her. She came from a noble family and considered herself very esteemed. Since the truth will never be known about Emily, the rumors and tidbits of information from the community portray her life and who she was. Compiling these tidbits of information about Emily creates a story. A story that future generations will read and remember who Emily Grierson was. This story ensures that her memory will never die and that she will be remembered. The perfect rose to rest on someone’s grave.
According to the text Rose for Emily proof can be actualized that mentally ill and/or mentally disturbed individuals are capable of loving. While Emily was never formally diagnosed it was clear she had some issues. She loved her beau so much that instead of risking him leaving and never returning she would rather him stay at home in a more permanent status.
She definitely loved him or else she would not have devoted herself to going to town to purchase the things she thought he should have. Purchasing gifts is one thing, but getting a recluse to emerge from their dwelling into the public to buy presents requires love or else they wouldn’t be a recluse.
These examples from the short story are the proof the story offers that mentally disturbed people are capable of love. Even though her disturbed mind superseded her love for her beau it doesn’t deny that there was love to begin with.
Discussion Questions Week 2
3. One of the questions in your text that follows “Rose . . .” asks whether it’s possible for a mentally ill/disturbed person to be “in love”, that is, to believe, feel, and act in accordance with traditional and normative definitions of being in love. Is it? Answer the question using “Rose . . .” as the basis of your ideas.
I think that anyone that would disagree with this question and say no would be a bit ridiculous. Anyone who has the capability of comprehending thought and feeling feelings is capable of love. The dictionary describes love as, "a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person." So, why should anyone be not capable of it? Even as babies we are capable of love, and we can't even comprehend love in our tiny baby minds. As with "normal" feelings of love, what is "normal" love? Emily's definition of love may have been a sick one, but it's what love was to her, and I don't think that anyone can say one person does not love another. We can love our significant others, our dogs, our possessions, our family all in the same. While reading this story, the thing that came to mind for me was the movie "Psycho." In it, Norman Bates keeps the body of his mother, and dresses up as her and kills a young woman staying in his hotel, and although a somewhat sick expression of it, could that be interpreted as a deep love for his mother? In our society, we're just afraid of things that question what we're used to, and I think Emily just didn't want to be alone, and she trusted those close to her, so she kept a corpse, and of course, she had to know that people would look down upon that, and that's why she kept it a secret.
4. Considering the time period and well-documented constraints on and expectations of women, what do you make of Chopin’s portrayal of a woman’s presumably guilt-free indiscretion? What do you think Chopin was hoping to convey, thematically, regarding romantic love and/or sex, marriage, trust, self-awareness, female pleasure?
Let me start off with saying that I really liked this story, and in accordance with another question we were assigned, I think the ending was a perfect and apt description of what a brief, passionate sexual encounter could do for two people. Given the time period, I think any woman, when presented with the opportunity to be sexually expressive and with the advent of no one finding out, would take advantage of the situation. Imagine, to be a woman during that time and being able to feel feelings of sexual freedom and passion like you never have before and nobody is going to find out. And even so, if the man in the story had spoken about it, he would've been just as looked down upon because he had a wife and children. This kind of judgment still goes on today. If a man has sex with six women, he's a "playa" and "pimp", and praised. But if a woman has sex with six men, she is a "slut." I think Chopin was trying to say that sex is a universal language, and so is passion. Everyone longs for it, man or woman, and she probably experienced something like this encounter in her lifetime. Aren't these type of stories what make for a good a movie? The kind of thing we all like to watch? It's what everyone longs for and wishes to experience once in their life, and while adultery or cheating is looked down upon by our society, I think it goes on a lot more than we'd like to admit.
I think that anyone that would disagree with this question and say no would be a bit ridiculous. Anyone who has the capability of comprehending thought and feeling feelings is capable of love. The dictionary describes love as, "a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person." So, why should anyone be not capable of it? Even as babies we are capable of love, and we can't even comprehend love in our tiny baby minds. As with "normal" feelings of love, what is "normal" love? Emily's definition of love may have been a sick one, but it's what love was to her, and I don't think that anyone can say one person does not love another. We can love our significant others, our dogs, our possessions, our family all in the same. While reading this story, the thing that came to mind for me was the movie "Psycho." In it, Norman Bates keeps the body of his mother, and dresses up as her and kills a young woman staying in his hotel, and although a somewhat sick expression of it, could that be interpreted as a deep love for his mother? In our society, we're just afraid of things that question what we're used to, and I think Emily just didn't want to be alone, and she trusted those close to her, so she kept a corpse, and of course, she had to know that people would look down upon that, and that's why she kept it a secret.
4. Considering the time period and well-documented constraints on and expectations of women, what do you make of Chopin’s portrayal of a woman’s presumably guilt-free indiscretion? What do you think Chopin was hoping to convey, thematically, regarding romantic love and/or sex, marriage, trust, self-awareness, female pleasure?
Let me start off with saying that I really liked this story, and in accordance with another question we were assigned, I think the ending was a perfect and apt description of what a brief, passionate sexual encounter could do for two people. Given the time period, I think any woman, when presented with the opportunity to be sexually expressive and with the advent of no one finding out, would take advantage of the situation. Imagine, to be a woman during that time and being able to feel feelings of sexual freedom and passion like you never have before and nobody is going to find out. And even so, if the man in the story had spoken about it, he would've been just as looked down upon because he had a wife and children. This kind of judgment still goes on today. If a man has sex with six women, he's a "playa" and "pimp", and praised. But if a woman has sex with six men, she is a "slut." I think Chopin was trying to say that sex is a universal language, and so is passion. Everyone longs for it, man or woman, and she probably experienced something like this encounter in her lifetime. Aren't these type of stories what make for a good a movie? The kind of thing we all like to watch? It's what everyone longs for and wishes to experience once in their life, and while adultery or cheating is looked down upon by our society, I think it goes on a lot more than we'd like to admit.
Saturday, August 29, 2009
DB Question #5 & #6
5. In dealing with relationships, from an outside perspective, one can never fully understand the actions of others. Chopin's portrayal of both parties and their significant others leaves many questions to be answered: "How close are the characters?", "Do their significant others know or even suspect their feelings for each other?", "Why does Chopin leave us in the dark about the details of the background of each character?". Chopin seems to leave room for many questions, however, the same can be said for relationships with people in our own lives. From the outside looking in, we can all assume what may be happening within a relationship. Unless we experience it firsthand, we are not able to relay the true meaning and magnitude of the emotions felt and decisions made. Maybe we are not meant to ask questions, but to simply allow events to take place and to figure out what to do from there on out. We cannot define what love means to one person because love means so many things to different people.
6. "The Storm"'s ending was not expected, nor was it what I particularly would have hoped for, however, it does occur in life. Society values fidelity and the ability to withstand temptation when emotion and logic are conflicting. Stories can either end reflecting the values of society, straying from it, or meeting it somewhere in between. The stories that stir the most questions and controversy are the ones that stray and invite the reader to experience something outside of the norm. In "real life", the affair would be revealed, causing a rift between characters and trust lost. Chopin offers readers to experience an affair without all the guilt. People often feel the need to "come out" when the guilt overpowers their conscience or when they are caught. It is what usually happens in real life. However, the ending may be "open" in order for the reader to view relationships and affairs from a different perspective.
6. "The Storm"'s ending was not expected, nor was it what I particularly would have hoped for, however, it does occur in life. Society values fidelity and the ability to withstand temptation when emotion and logic are conflicting. Stories can either end reflecting the values of society, straying from it, or meeting it somewhere in between. The stories that stir the most questions and controversy are the ones that stray and invite the reader to experience something outside of the norm. In "real life", the affair would be revealed, causing a rift between characters and trust lost. Chopin offers readers to experience an affair without all the guilt. People often feel the need to "come out" when the guilt overpowers their conscience or when they are caught. It is what usually happens in real life. However, the ending may be "open" in order for the reader to view relationships and affairs from a different perspective.
Friday, August 28, 2009
Discussion/ Week 2/ Question #3
What is normal to one person may not be normal to another. Emily was obviously disturbed in some way, but that does not make her a horrible person.She likes to keep her loved ones bodies even after they have already expired, so that does make her behavior strange. Although Emily had a different way of expressing her grief, that does not mean she was incapable of being in love.I do believe she is well aware of her feelings and is capable of loving someone, but she doesn't know how to express her love in a healthy manor. Meaning she does not know how to properly release a loved one emotionally or grieve. She is fully capable of loving someone, but I do not think society would expect her form of grief. The form of grief she used would be viewed as disturbing from a number of stand points, and I can not in vision a society that would define this behavior as normal. I do not agree that society defines sanity; however I do believe people make judgements before facts are presented.For obvious reasons, I think this behavior would be classified as unsanitary for her health mentally and physically. That classification is not for society to decide, and that's why I do not agree that society defines sanity. Professional doctors would be able to define that behavior, and society is available to judge, not to define.
Week 2 Blog
Week 2, Question 2
What is unmistakably absent from “A Rose for Emily” is the rose. Figuratively or symbolically, it is possible that her ‘true love’ can be viewed as the rose, but never once is this analogy solidified to the reader. It could also be argued that Emily needed a rose or two to quell the stench that arose as the decomposing body of Homer Barron permeated the air around her home. Although Faulkner, narrating through the townspeople, refers to her as “Miss Emily” throughout the story, giving some semblance of respect for her, his descriptive words lead the reader to believe otherwise. This is only one of the mysterious aspects of this story.
The narration is completely one-sided throughout. General consensus from the townspeople is certainly not enough insight to formulate an honest opinion about what really happened within the Grierson home. Faulkner mysteriously gives only exclusive observational opinions and any speculation generated is from the outside looking in, rather than a firsthand account. Reliability in this type of narration is very low and actually seems to possess a mob mentality at times. In the beginning of section four, shortly after Emily has purchased arsenic poisoning, Faulkner initiates a generalized public opinion by saying, “She will kill herself” which is being voiced by the narrator who proclaims, “We all said”.
Although obviously within close proximity to her, the story is being told as though it’s a brief biographical account, but uniquely enough, the narrator never actually interviews the subject. In gossipy housewife fashion, Faulkner tells the story as though he simply nosed around the neighborhood to catch quips and pieces of conversations about Emily. If the work is viewed from a biographical lens, then Faulkner grossly overlooks and ignores the story from the subject, Emily’s, standpoint. Although there are plenty of specific examples and circumstances to support his generalizations, the reader is left with only a small glimpse of the bigger picture.
Week 2, Question 6
A happy ending to “The Storm” quite brilliantly captures what could be interpreted as Chopin’s opinion of ambiguity about a married woman’s sexual rendezvous with another man. This concept questions whether a woman’s sexual freedom is in fact costly or punishable. In the current temperature of our societal boundaries, the idea of an encounter like this one is certainly not as scandalous as it may have been in the era in which this story was written. Although it was not published, what can be immediately appreciated in this work is the writer’s gumption to postulate the idea of promiscuity or sexual freedom – however the reader decides to view it – within the boundaries of marriage. A sexual encounter that, even by today’s legal standards, is considered adulterous, is blatantly glorified, romanticized and of little consequence in this story. Quite the refreshing peek into the boundaries of what a monogamous relationship could or should be.
Often, when a society is completely enchained by their moral standards, it takes a fictional account to break through these boundaries and familiarize the audience with what may be considered taboo. More important than simply reflecting a society’s value systems, this story questions those values and does so without entangling any repercussions to the questioning.
Discussion/ Week 2 / Question #2
In the end the author describes the unseen meticulously. The rose is used to represent the touch, and appearance of the room. The rose description was used to emphasize, how special and delicate this moment in time meant to Emily. There was an area of the story that illustrated a bed of flowers, but it did not state the bed of flowers to be roses. I think most of the town focused on these dark crazy women, so when the room was discovered it showed a softer sensitive side to Emily.
In the short story Emily is characterized as this dark mysterious person. Throughout the text her demeanor is conveyed to the reader as strange, and unbalanced. I think the perspective of Emily is a complete speculation, and the townspeople provided no real truth till the end. The townspeople where not reliable to me, but they also had a strange insight. They too painted themselves as dark and mysterious as Emily. They stayed watching Emily and her every move, and even when she bought something or came out of her house. Although this perception of Emily was told from a visual, I thought the townspeople to be judgmental. They had no empathy when it came to her state of mind, but the affect of not knowing kept the text in suspense, which I enjoyed. The text did not provide the exact truth, so when the room was described it was an understanding of the behavior, but it was not apparent why the behavior was occurring. I think this information does matter, because it never stated how he died or if she murdered him. If the man was a victim of murder, Emily could be painted as a dark killer, instead of a woman who was hoarding the dead bodies of her loved ones.
In the short story Emily is characterized as this dark mysterious person. Throughout the text her demeanor is conveyed to the reader as strange, and unbalanced. I think the perspective of Emily is a complete speculation, and the townspeople provided no real truth till the end. The townspeople where not reliable to me, but they also had a strange insight. They too painted themselves as dark and mysterious as Emily. They stayed watching Emily and her every move, and even when she bought something or came out of her house. Although this perception of Emily was told from a visual, I thought the townspeople to be judgmental. They had no empathy when it came to her state of mind, but the affect of not knowing kept the text in suspense, which I enjoyed. The text did not provide the exact truth, so when the room was described it was an understanding of the behavior, but it was not apparent why the behavior was occurring. I think this information does matter, because it never stated how he died or if she murdered him. If the man was a victim of murder, Emily could be painted as a dark killer, instead of a woman who was hoarding the dead bodies of her loved ones.
WEEK 2 - DQ
My choices for this week are:
2. Discuss “Rose for Emily” in light of the title: What significance does the “rose” hold? Where in the text do you see a rose . . . or do you? Explain your observations and ideas. Consider narration in “Rose for Emily” – you’re told the narrator is the “townspeople”, which means the “person” speaking is recounting not a highly personal takes but a more generalized understanding of Miss Emily. Do you think this narrator is reliable? Do you think we “get” the exact truth about her character and actions taken by both Emily and other players (static/flat characters)? Why would this be important?
You cannot find the "rose" in this text but the significance of the "rose" is the story itself. The story is like a tribute to the Grierson's, especially to Emily, whose life is the subject of the scrutiny and criticisms in her community. The "townspeople" may grew up with her or old enough to witness the events of her life as it unfolds. The "rose" signifies the celebration of her life and making it known that even in the tweaks and twists in her life, the "townspeople" still feel an obligation to tell her story. Miss Emily is an integral part of their community, she is an open book where the "townspeople" seems to know every move she makes. Here, the "rose" is like the salute of the community to her. There is a sense of obligation to give back to the Grierson's especially when the late father "has loaned money to the town, which the town, as a matter of business, preferred this way of repaying." So by retelling her story, as it happens, is also returning the favor for Miss Emily. After the tweaks and twists in her life and as an icon, they have not much to help Miss Emily but to pay her their last respect.
It is a way of saying, "My hat is off to you, Miss Emily, we are grateful to have known you."
The narrator in this story, may not be recounting on a highly personal take but the narrator has enough credibility to speak of Miss Emily since the narrator sounds like she has lived in the same community long enough to see the events unfold before his or her eyes of the Grierson's or the community's history. "Alive, Miss Emily had been a tradition, a duty, and a care; a sort of hereditary obligation upon the town, dating from that day in 1894 when Colonel Sartoris, the major..." Also the narrator said, "When the next generation, with its more modern ideas..."The narrator speaks in different tones and does not show any bias. He/she speaks about her and her life as it fits and makes the narrator credible enough. There are times when the narrator at some point criticizes the Grierson's for 'holding themselves too high," of their "demeanor" when they are seen in public or when Emily picks Homer to be her love interest and unfavorable comments he or she made of her choice, "grief could not cause a real lady to forget noblesse oblige --without calling it noblesse oblige."
The irony though, is that even when Miss Emily begins to show her "mental illness", the narrator still maintained subtleness in his or her tone. In fact, he or she still admires how Miss Emily carried herself, "carried her head high enough --even when we believed that she was fallen."
It is important that the narrator(s) tells the story as it is. It is like he or she keeps the momentum going of maintaining our interests to keep on reading but also engages us in every aspect of the story. The narrator(s) takes us to the setting and be a part of the community. Above all, the narrator leaves us something to talk and think about. The story ends but the legend continues.
6) From your text (and you may answer this one in first-person as it invites a “reader-response”-themed response. “Are you bothered by [“The Storm’s”] happy ending? Are stories supposed to reinforce the dominant values of a society? What do you think would (or should) have happened in real life?” (658) I am somewhat bothered by the "happy" ending of the story "The Storm" because it seems like the indiscretion was not a "big deal" especially when Calixta showed so much satisfaction and joy out of the infidelity. The last paragraph on Part 2 states, "He turned and smiled at her with a beaming face; and she lifted her pretty chin in the air and laughed aloud". Both Alcee and Calixta did not show any guilt or remorse for that matter. I do not think that stories are supposed to reinforce the dominant values of society because we already know what is expected of us- what is right, wrong, the norms and what is morally right. However, stories such as "The Storm", may not reinforce the dominant values of society, but it clearly shows the lessons behind the story and it is up to us to act on it or not. In addition, in that era, indiscretion was considered a taboo, considering that women did not have the "rights" to express their dissatisfactions in their marriages and to get out of it, if they did. If all stories are written to conform to the dominant values of a society, I do not think that there would be a great demand to read because it is not what reality is all about.
In real life, I do not think this is possible. There would be no happy ending like this story has. Instead of returning back to normal after the "storm" it could have been fights, secret rendezvous one after the other, and there will be broken hearts and broken marriages. There is a possibility that, many of the marriages today have survived the "storm". However, culture and religious beliefs could also play an important role to "wither the storm". In real life, there are different options in "seeking shelter" out from the "storm" and just like every "storm," there are victims and casualties, an awful reminder of the strengths and power of a "storm."
2. Discuss “Rose for Emily” in light of the title: What significance does the “rose” hold? Where in the text do you see a rose . . . or do you? Explain your observations and ideas. Consider narration in “Rose for Emily” – you’re told the narrator is the “townspeople”, which means the “person” speaking is recounting not a highly personal takes but a more generalized understanding of Miss Emily. Do you think this narrator is reliable? Do you think we “get” the exact truth about her character and actions taken by both Emily and other players (static/flat characters)? Why would this be important?
You cannot find the "rose" in this text but the significance of the "rose" is the story itself. The story is like a tribute to the Grierson's, especially to Emily, whose life is the subject of the scrutiny and criticisms in her community. The "townspeople" may grew up with her or old enough to witness the events of her life as it unfolds. The "rose" signifies the celebration of her life and making it known that even in the tweaks and twists in her life, the "townspeople" still feel an obligation to tell her story. Miss Emily is an integral part of their community, she is an open book where the "townspeople" seems to know every move she makes. Here, the "rose" is like the salute of the community to her. There is a sense of obligation to give back to the Grierson's especially when the late father "has loaned money to the town, which the town, as a matter of business, preferred this way of repaying." So by retelling her story, as it happens, is also returning the favor for Miss Emily. After the tweaks and twists in her life and as an icon, they have not much to help Miss Emily but to pay her their last respect.
It is a way of saying, "My hat is off to you, Miss Emily, we are grateful to have known you."
The narrator in this story, may not be recounting on a highly personal take but the narrator has enough credibility to speak of Miss Emily since the narrator sounds like she has lived in the same community long enough to see the events unfold before his or her eyes of the Grierson's or the community's history. "Alive, Miss Emily had been a tradition, a duty, and a care; a sort of hereditary obligation upon the town, dating from that day in 1894 when Colonel Sartoris, the major..." Also the narrator said, "When the next generation, with its more modern ideas..."The narrator speaks in different tones and does not show any bias. He/she speaks about her and her life as it fits and makes the narrator credible enough. There are times when the narrator at some point criticizes the Grierson's for 'holding themselves too high," of their "demeanor" when they are seen in public or when Emily picks Homer to be her love interest and unfavorable comments he or she made of her choice, "grief could not cause a real lady to forget noblesse oblige --without calling it noblesse oblige."
The irony though, is that even when Miss Emily begins to show her "mental illness", the narrator still maintained subtleness in his or her tone. In fact, he or she still admires how Miss Emily carried herself, "carried her head high enough --even when we believed that she was fallen."
It is important that the narrator(s) tells the story as it is. It is like he or she keeps the momentum going of maintaining our interests to keep on reading but also engages us in every aspect of the story. The narrator(s) takes us to the setting and be a part of the community. Above all, the narrator leaves us something to talk and think about. The story ends but the legend continues.
6) From your text (and you may answer this one in first-person as it invites a “reader-response”-themed response. “Are you bothered by [“The Storm’s”] happy ending? Are stories supposed to reinforce the dominant values of a society? What do you think would (or should) have happened in real life?” (658) I am somewhat bothered by the "happy" ending of the story "The Storm" because it seems like the indiscretion was not a "big deal" especially when Calixta showed so much satisfaction and joy out of the infidelity. The last paragraph on Part 2 states, "He turned and smiled at her with a beaming face; and she lifted her pretty chin in the air and laughed aloud". Both Alcee and Calixta did not show any guilt or remorse for that matter. I do not think that stories are supposed to reinforce the dominant values of society because we already know what is expected of us- what is right, wrong, the norms and what is morally right. However, stories such as "The Storm", may not reinforce the dominant values of society, but it clearly shows the lessons behind the story and it is up to us to act on it or not. In addition, in that era, indiscretion was considered a taboo, considering that women did not have the "rights" to express their dissatisfactions in their marriages and to get out of it, if they did. If all stories are written to conform to the dominant values of a society, I do not think that there would be a great demand to read because it is not what reality is all about.
In real life, I do not think this is possible. There would be no happy ending like this story has. Instead of returning back to normal after the "storm" it could have been fights, secret rendezvous one after the other, and there will be broken hearts and broken marriages. There is a possibility that, many of the marriages today have survived the "storm". However, culture and religious beliefs could also play an important role to "wither the storm". In real life, there are different options in "seeking shelter" out from the "storm" and just like every "storm," there are victims and casualties, an awful reminder of the strengths and power of a "storm."
Wednesday, August 26, 2009
Bookstore Missing Books
Hi all,
I just wanted to let you know (as I've received a few emails questioning when I turned in the book order) that this course was originally slated for another instructor. I turned in the book order a few days after it was requested that I take this section. Sometimes these things happen. I simply wanted you to understand that I didn't just not place a book order until right before the semester started (though it was weeks before . . . and I thought they would rush the order). I am going to place a copy in the MVC Writing Center tomorrow (easy to access . . . and I want you to go!) that's older (the second edition). I was going through older materials and unearthed it. It doesn't have everything in it . . . but it has quite a bit. Another student posted a message below about a textbook rental site that you may want to check out as well.
Discussion Questions Week 2
****Note: Noticing there weren't any posts yet for this week, I checked the settings and realized the post was saved but not "published". For that I apologize. Should you need the extra time, you may take through Tuesday of next week to answer.
***Because you're assigned three literary texts this week, you will need to address all of them in your posts. (Two original posts on two different texts, and one reply post on the third).
***Because you're assigned three literary texts this week, you will need to address all of them in your posts. (Two original posts on two different texts, and one reply post on the third).
1. Choose one of the "critical contexts" selections based on "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufock. This is a beautiful but highly complex and difficult to understand poem, so reading the context literature will really help you make some sense of it. Keep in mind also that Eliot, who headed the theory of interpretation referred to as either formalism or New Criticism believed that good literature should be highly complex and difficult to understand, that readers would benefit from having to work to achieve meaning. You'll read about this theory later on in the class. To the question: what did you get from the contextual article you read? Do you agree with the author? Disagree? How do you feel about the poem having read this interpretation? (Hint: do not assume the critic is automatically "right" -- he/she offers an interpretation -- yes, a scholarly, professional one, but this by no means makes the interpretation the only valid one out there.
2. Discuss “Rose for Emily” in light of the title: What significance does the “rose” hold? Where in the text do you see a rose . . . or do you? Explain your observations and ideas.
Consider narration in “Rose for Emily” – you’re told the narrator is the “townspeople”, which means the “person” speaking is recounting not a highly personal take but a more generalized understanding of Miss Emily. Do you think this narrator is reliable? Do you think we “get” the exact truth about her character and actions taken by both Emily and other players (static/flat characters)? Why would this be important?
3. One of the questions in your text that follows “Rose . . .” asks whether it’s possible for a mentally ill/disturbed person to be “in love”, that is, to believe, feel, and act in accordance with traditional and normative definitions of being in love. Is it? Answer the question using “Rose . . .” as the basis of your ideas.
4. Considering the time period and well-documented constraints on and expectations of women, what do you make of Chopin’s portrayal of a woman’s presumably guilt-free indiscretion? What do you think Chopin was hoping to convey, thematically, regarding romantic love and/or sex, marriage, trust, self-awareness, female pleasure?
5. The symbolism in the “The Storm” is readily recognizable; the reasons for Calixta’s decision aren’t. As we know nothing of the marriage and next to nothing about the characters besides their locations, we can surmise that Chopin isn’t asking us to consider this indiscretion as a response to something specific – we aren’t given a reason as to why she might have made this choice. With that in mind, explain why you think Chopin gave us so little to work with here, why she makes it difficult for us to “pin” the affair down as meaning this, that or the other.
6. From your text (and you may answer this one in first-person as it invites a “reader-response”-themed response. “Are you bothered by [“The Storm’s”] happy ending? Are stories supposed to reinforce the dominant values of a society? What do you think would (or should) have happened in real life?” (658)
Tuesday, August 25, 2009
Introduction
Well I guess I am one of those people who forgot to post an introduction so let me start by saying my name is Alysha I am 21 years old and I have been going to MSJC since I graduated high school at Temescal Canyon High and hope to transfer to SFSU next year for Kinesiology. I currently do not work. My job is being a full time student. Other than this English class I am enrolled in Anatomy & Physiology as well as Communications.
I live in Menifee with my mom and step dad. I have two biological sisters. Ashley, 23 and Amber, 18. Amber just started college here at MSJC this semester. I have two step brothers. Jorden, 18 and Colton, 17. One step sister. CeeJay, 9.
In my free time I enjoy hanging out with friends and family. I have one true best friend, Rhonda. We have known each other since the 7th grade and been close since our junior year in high school. Other than hanging out with friends and family, I really don't have much time for play as I am always studying or doing homework. Although, I always have time for the gym. Its a great way to keep in shape and get away for a little while.
This is all I have for now. I hope to learn a lot from this course and cannot wait to see what Amy has in store for us all. Good luck to everyone!
Sincerely,
Alysha
I live in Menifee with my mom and step dad. I have two biological sisters. Ashley, 23 and Amber, 18. Amber just started college here at MSJC this semester. I have two step brothers. Jorden, 18 and Colton, 17. One step sister. CeeJay, 9.
In my free time I enjoy hanging out with friends and family. I have one true best friend, Rhonda. We have known each other since the 7th grade and been close since our junior year in high school. Other than hanging out with friends and family, I really don't have much time for play as I am always studying or doing homework. Although, I always have time for the gym. Its a great way to keep in shape and get away for a little while.
This is all I have for now. I hope to learn a lot from this course and cannot wait to see what Amy has in store for us all. Good luck to everyone!
Sincerely,
Alysha
Monday, August 24, 2009
DQ Set Week 1
Okay, I am not sure if I am answering these questions how I am supposed to, but i re-read these passages over and over again to try to understand the questions as they follow. So don't laugh if something seems out of the ordinary with my answers!Question 1: I chose to answer this question with the passage "Araby." In this particular case, i wouldn't only call it romantic love, but also silent love. Silent love, to me, is when someone has so much adoration for another person but is too shy to approach them in any matter; too shy to make an impression. When the boy is approached by the girl, he offers her a gift from the bazaar just because she couldn't go. He kept her image in his head often. He cares for her and wants to make her happy. Which i think is very romantic.Question 3: "A&P" was the short story i chose for this question. I loved this passage and what it was about, tho I didn't really find this passage to be about romantic love. This protagonist stood up for what had been a misunderstanding toward somebody else. He stood up to his boss who was embarassing three young ladies for dressing in bathing suits into a grocery store, and mentioning to the protagonist that the girls made the store look bad. The guy quit because he thought the boss shouldnt have been so harsh on them. Someone who would quit their job because their boss was being intimidating to me, i think, is a very caring person; they love what they believe in. I chose to answer this question with this passage because not only did it challenge the definition/beliefs I have about romantic love, but I think it definitely caught my eye about how differently people look at love.
Sunday, August 23, 2009
blog 1
“Story of an Hour” was an excellent short story. It definitely challenged typical convections. Kate Chopin wrote “There would be no powerful will bending hers in that blind persistence with which men and women believe they have a right to impose a private will upon a fellow-creature.” This makes relationships seemed forced and without love. I don’t think this story is about the love or the lack of love she had for her husband but more for the love she found for herself when she believed her husband was dead. “Free! Body and soul free!” Mrs. Mallard repeated. She was free to be who she wanted when she wanted. That’s the love she experienced. Sadly it was only for an hour.
“A&P” challenges my definition of romantic love because I do not believe in love at first sight. Sammy was instantly attracted to the group of girls. And he did stand up for them at the end of the story which normally I would say it is a start at romantic love. The reason why I believe it was more about lust than love was the fact that Sammy had wanted the girls to see his act of heroism. Romantic love is not caring whether or not you partner sees your act of kindness.
“A&P” challenges my definition of romantic love because I do not believe in love at first sight. Sammy was instantly attracted to the group of girls. And he did stand up for them at the end of the story which normally I would say it is a start at romantic love. The reason why I believe it was more about lust than love was the fact that Sammy had wanted the girls to see his act of heroism. Romantic love is not caring whether or not you partner sees your act of kindness.
Week one Romantic Love
1.Choose a selection from Week 1 and explain how the concept of romantic love is treated. Does it offer a traditional take or challenge typical conventions (i.e., we should date/marry for romantic love rather than security; everyone should find/have a "soulmate"; "true" love lasts forever; romantic love should be reserved for a man and a woman, etc.)
In the poem "True Love," by Sharon Olds, the writer makes the truest case for realist love. Most young people are influced by film and television to think that love is all passionate kisses and longing. The other half shows the "desperate housewife," appeal. It is few and far between to see how couples that are really in love work together. Olds poem expressing physical passion and the reality of the "children asleep in their beds." (par.15) She does not discount the passion in a marriage. My favorite part of the poem captures the links of the couple. The example of the "delivery-room," is very touching. This piece testifies that married people can find a real love that stands the test of time and encompasses passion.
3. Does the selection you chose challenge the definition/beliefs you have about romantic love? How so? Does it correspond to your definition/beliefs? How so?
Kate Chopin's "The Story of an Hour," challenged my belief's of how a person should feel if they are really in love. Mrs. Mallard does not cry because of the death of her husband, but for a sense of relief. She realizes that she has a new freedom that she has never felt before. Understanding how women can feel trapped in a relationship, I empathized with the character. I didn't feel that she actually loved her husband. In my definition of love, the pain from losing someone so dear to yourself would be overwhelming. It would take time before you could weed out actual freedom to yourself. I believe that a loving relationship, especially in marriage, is based on two individuals becoming a whole. They complement each other, balancing the good and bad of the individual. "The story of an Hour," was a story about the joy is finding yourself. In paragraph six there is very clear symbolism surrounding the open window, also referring to Mrs. Mallard. Love doesn't have to trap. It can set you free.
In the poem "True Love," by Sharon Olds, the writer makes the truest case for realist love. Most young people are influced by film and television to think that love is all passionate kisses and longing. The other half shows the "desperate housewife," appeal. It is few and far between to see how couples that are really in love work together. Olds poem expressing physical passion and the reality of the "children asleep in their beds." (par.15) She does not discount the passion in a marriage. My favorite part of the poem captures the links of the couple. The example of the "delivery-room," is very touching. This piece testifies that married people can find a real love that stands the test of time and encompasses passion.
3. Does the selection you chose challenge the definition/beliefs you have about romantic love? How so? Does it correspond to your definition/beliefs? How so?
Kate Chopin's "The Story of an Hour," challenged my belief's of how a person should feel if they are really in love. Mrs. Mallard does not cry because of the death of her husband, but for a sense of relief. She realizes that she has a new freedom that she has never felt before. Understanding how women can feel trapped in a relationship, I empathized with the character. I didn't feel that she actually loved her husband. In my definition of love, the pain from losing someone so dear to yourself would be overwhelming. It would take time before you could weed out actual freedom to yourself. I believe that a loving relationship, especially in marriage, is based on two individuals becoming a whole. They complement each other, balancing the good and bad of the individual. "The story of an Hour," was a story about the joy is finding yourself. In paragraph six there is very clear symbolism surrounding the open window, also referring to Mrs. Mallard. Love doesn't have to trap. It can set you free.
Discussion Questions Week 1
For this week, I'm going to pick question 1 and 3.
1. Choose a selection from Week 1 and explain how the concept of romantic love is treated.
In "A & P", which I really really liked, I don't even think the concept of love is brushed, a romantic love at least. What Sammy is feeling here, is humanity, for lack of a better word. He is looking upon these three girls, tearing them apart, bit by bit, scrutinizing their every freckle, commenting upon them, and then he gives up his job for the sake of their embarrassment. I don't think that's romantic love. I think that it's sacrifice for the sake of another human, and I think not many people who do such a thing. I know that most people would just ignore a situation like that, and go about their daily lives. They'd probably say some snide remark about three girls being in a bathing suit, and what's fascinating about Updike's writing is that he doesn't give too much away. What we see is Sammy's point of view, and how he views their home, and perhaps he identifies with that way of life, and in that sense, he sympathizes them. In the beginning, he assumes their all friends and the "Queenie" being kind of like Regina George in Mean Girls. If you haven't seen it, she controls her other two friends. She's the Queen Bee. In the story, he calls them stupid, asking if they really have a brain or if it's just "a bee in a glassjar", and I'm sure that's how ANY person would feel if they saw this situation. But he steps back, and he looks at them for who they are. Three girls running an errand for their mother. I've been in a similar situation. I ran to the store one day, to get myself Starbucks, and it was a cloudy day, and I just wore a sweatshirt and some shorts. Being that I have red hair, I have a very light complexion. As I was walking out of the store into the parking lot, some older guy, probably in his early thirties, walked past me and said "ever seen the sun?" I didn't know what to say, so all I said was, "excuse me?" And he just kept walking on, and laughed with his friend. I sat in my car for a while, and against my better judgment, went back into the store. I found him, standing in line for Starbucks, and I went off on him. Everyone stared. And I walked out. Nobody stood up for me. His friend just sat and laughed, and I felt accomplished and went back to car. Maybe Sammy was doing in the story what the girls couldn't do for themselves. Speak up. And I think in that sense, some love is discussed, but not a romantic love, a brotherly love.
3. Does the selection you chose challenge the definition/beliefs you have about romantic love?
For this question, I chose "True Love" by Wislawa Szymborska. Once again, I really liked this poem because it really shows how society feels about true love, and to answer the question it both challenged by beliefs and reinforced them. The way society feels about two people in love can be summed up in one scentence, get a room. We've all heard it. And when most people see two others in love, it almost makes them sick. I think that we all learn to love from the movies, because love is dying in our society. I know that in my own experience, I certainly didn't know how to love from my parents. But, I don't think that true love is always mushy romance. I think it's very much LIFE, which is why I say the poem questions and reassures my beliefs. Love is very difficult to achieve and it's always a work in progress. Love is sacrifice, and I think people really fail to see that. True love is not marriage, or children, or cards and chocolates. It's realizing the beauty in everyone around you, and falling in LOVE with your best friend. I think it's having a language between you and your significant other that only you two can understand, whether it's spoken or silent. I also think that often times our definition of love is defined by that bible verse in 1 Corinthians. Love is patient. Love is kind. And so on, and so forth. But I don't think that's how love is anymore. People have to fight for the one they love, at least in my opinion, and no love comes without sacrifice, once again. True love isn't something you stumble upon. It's something you work towards.
1. Choose a selection from Week 1 and explain how the concept of romantic love is treated.
In "A & P", which I really really liked, I don't even think the concept of love is brushed, a romantic love at least. What Sammy is feeling here, is humanity, for lack of a better word. He is looking upon these three girls, tearing them apart, bit by bit, scrutinizing their every freckle, commenting upon them, and then he gives up his job for the sake of their embarrassment. I don't think that's romantic love. I think that it's sacrifice for the sake of another human, and I think not many people who do such a thing. I know that most people would just ignore a situation like that, and go about their daily lives. They'd probably say some snide remark about three girls being in a bathing suit, and what's fascinating about Updike's writing is that he doesn't give too much away. What we see is Sammy's point of view, and how he views their home, and perhaps he identifies with that way of life, and in that sense, he sympathizes them. In the beginning, he assumes their all friends and the "Queenie" being kind of like Regina George in Mean Girls. If you haven't seen it, she controls her other two friends. She's the Queen Bee. In the story, he calls them stupid, asking if they really have a brain or if it's just "a bee in a glassjar", and I'm sure that's how ANY person would feel if they saw this situation. But he steps back, and he looks at them for who they are. Three girls running an errand for their mother. I've been in a similar situation. I ran to the store one day, to get myself Starbucks, and it was a cloudy day, and I just wore a sweatshirt and some shorts. Being that I have red hair, I have a very light complexion. As I was walking out of the store into the parking lot, some older guy, probably in his early thirties, walked past me and said "ever seen the sun?" I didn't know what to say, so all I said was, "excuse me?" And he just kept walking on, and laughed with his friend. I sat in my car for a while, and against my better judgment, went back into the store. I found him, standing in line for Starbucks, and I went off on him. Everyone stared. And I walked out. Nobody stood up for me. His friend just sat and laughed, and I felt accomplished and went back to car. Maybe Sammy was doing in the story what the girls couldn't do for themselves. Speak up. And I think in that sense, some love is discussed, but not a romantic love, a brotherly love.
3. Does the selection you chose challenge the definition/beliefs you have about romantic love?
For this question, I chose "True Love" by Wislawa Szymborska. Once again, I really liked this poem because it really shows how society feels about true love, and to answer the question it both challenged by beliefs and reinforced them. The way society feels about two people in love can be summed up in one scentence, get a room. We've all heard it. And when most people see two others in love, it almost makes them sick. I think that we all learn to love from the movies, because love is dying in our society. I know that in my own experience, I certainly didn't know how to love from my parents. But, I don't think that true love is always mushy romance. I think it's very much LIFE, which is why I say the poem questions and reassures my beliefs. Love is very difficult to achieve and it's always a work in progress. Love is sacrifice, and I think people really fail to see that. True love is not marriage, or children, or cards and chocolates. It's realizing the beauty in everyone around you, and falling in LOVE with your best friend. I think it's having a language between you and your significant other that only you two can understand, whether it's spoken or silent. I also think that often times our definition of love is defined by that bible verse in 1 Corinthians. Love is patient. Love is kind. And so on, and so forth. But I don't think that's how love is anymore. People have to fight for the one they love, at least in my opinion, and no love comes without sacrifice, once again. True love isn't something you stumble upon. It's something you work towards.
Week One questions
4. Compare/Contrast the two versions of “True Love.” Szymborska’s “True Love” in my way is that the speaker has been passed-up by love and it is making her life sound bitter. She questions the existence of true love. When the speaker addresses the happy couple, she has doubts that the couple’s actions are nothing but a show off. The reader scrutinizes the happiness and effects of people in love and has a negative attitude for it. Non-believers can believe whatever they want to believe and not have any negative feedback towards it. The speaker also speaks the words of a person so consumed with love. She sees love everywhere and around her are reflections of happiness and love. Although the two are both poems of love, the differences are shown when two different people has found true love (Sharon’s True Love) while the other is still questioning the existence of true love (Szymborska’s True Love).
5. Compare “To His Importunate Mistress” to Andrew Marvell’s famed “To His Coy Mistress”. What kind of statement do you think De Vries is making about Marvell’s classic? You could tell that Devries is mocking Marvell completely. The first two lines would clearly describe the coying was a crime; that even creditors have haunted him because the coying has been too costly for them. His love for the mistress is more like impressing her than himself. The irony is when he was having trouble with his finances to support their getaway; so the mistress ended leaving him without showing any kind of feelings and/or emotions. Devries’ poem also shows that there is a winner and a loser in any and every situation. For example, money talks in every aspect of life. In Marvell’s “To His Coy Mistress,” this was more of a man looking for an eternal love for the mistress. Marvell’s is more on true love rather than just a fling. These two poems talks about the mistress, the different kinds of love, the lessons learned of having to play around or having a fling and what true love should be.
5. Compare “To His Importunate Mistress” to Andrew Marvell’s famed “To His Coy Mistress”. What kind of statement do you think De Vries is making about Marvell’s classic? You could tell that Devries is mocking Marvell completely. The first two lines would clearly describe the coying was a crime; that even creditors have haunted him because the coying has been too costly for them. His love for the mistress is more like impressing her than himself. The irony is when he was having trouble with his finances to support their getaway; so the mistress ended leaving him without showing any kind of feelings and/or emotions. Devries’ poem also shows that there is a winner and a loser in any and every situation. For example, money talks in every aspect of life. In Marvell’s “To His Coy Mistress,” this was more of a man looking for an eternal love for the mistress. Marvell’s is more on true love rather than just a fling. These two poems talks about the mistress, the different kinds of love, the lessons learned of having to play around or having a fling and what true love should be.
Week 1 DQ
Week 1 DQ
4. Compare/Contrast the two versions of “True Love”. You can go a number of places with this question, but you should focus on the effect that each poem produces given its true use of diction, tone, general structure, imagery, and the like.
Szymborska’s “True Love” in my interpretations is that the speaker, has been passed-up by “love”, also sounds bitter in the sense that she must been hurt before and the speaker is someone who envies other people in love and does not really have the idea of what love is all about. She questions the validity and the existence of true love.
In addition, when the speaker addressed the happy couple, she has doubts in her tone that the happy couple’s actions are mere “show offs”. The speaker’s negative attitude towards love, the happiness and the effects of it on the people in love, are being scrutinized. Szymborska said “Let the people who never find true love keep saying that there’s no such a thing”. So in essence, it is more about a person, who have not felt the meaning of true love, really wonder what true love is all about (the effects of being in love). For the non-believers, they can believe whatever they want to believe.
On the other hand, with Sharon’s version of True Love, she speaks the words of a person so consumed with love. In all aspects of her poem, it shows how love overpowered her existence. She sees love everywhere and what she feels and sees around her are reflections of happiness, contentment and love. Sharon’s True Love has set no boundaries, one that freely express what she feels about love.
Although the two are both poems of love, the differences are shown of two different individuals where one has found true love (Sharon’s True Love) while the other is still questioning the validity of the existence of true love because she has not found true love at all (Szymborska’s True Love).
5. Compare “To His Importunate Mistress” to Andrew Marvell’s famed “To His Coy Mistres”. What kind of statement do you think De Vries is making about Marvell’s classic?
Devries is mocking Marvell. The first two lines would clearly describe the affirmation that his coyness was a crime. The whole coying has been too costly that even creditors have haunted him. His love for the mistress is more of impressing her than himself. He is showing that he can show him the world even if he is taking risks of ruining his finances. It is also sad that even a man without the financial means to support a mistress, would still go out of his way to support this vice. The irony is, when he ran out of resources (finances) to support their rendezvous, the mistress left him without showing any kind of feelings. Devries’ poem also shows that when the “mouse is playing”, there are always consequences and most of the time, there is a winner and a loser. That money talks in every aspect of life (especially in this time of age). For Devries, he knew what he was going into; the temptress was too hard to pass.
In contrary, Marvell’s “To His Coy Mistress”, this was more of a man professing almost like an eternal love for the mistress. Marvell’s is more on true love rather than just a fling. He said that, “Of Humber would complain. I would Love you ten years before the Flood. And you should, if you please, refuse Till the conversion of the Jews.” This depicts time. That also said, in line 13 to 17, this is when even when they are old, wrinkly and no longer attractive, his love for her does not rely on the outside image but of what is in her heart.
These two poems talks about the persona’s mistress, the different kinds of love, the lessons learned of having to “play” around, and what true love should be.
4. Compare/Contrast the two versions of “True Love”. You can go a number of places with this question, but you should focus on the effect that each poem produces given its true use of diction, tone, general structure, imagery, and the like.
Szymborska’s “True Love” in my interpretations is that the speaker, has been passed-up by “love”, also sounds bitter in the sense that she must been hurt before and the speaker is someone who envies other people in love and does not really have the idea of what love is all about. She questions the validity and the existence of true love.
In addition, when the speaker addressed the happy couple, she has doubts in her tone that the happy couple’s actions are mere “show offs”. The speaker’s negative attitude towards love, the happiness and the effects of it on the people in love, are being scrutinized. Szymborska said “Let the people who never find true love keep saying that there’s no such a thing”. So in essence, it is more about a person, who have not felt the meaning of true love, really wonder what true love is all about (the effects of being in love). For the non-believers, they can believe whatever they want to believe.
On the other hand, with Sharon’s version of True Love, she speaks the words of a person so consumed with love. In all aspects of her poem, it shows how love overpowered her existence. She sees love everywhere and what she feels and sees around her are reflections of happiness, contentment and love. Sharon’s True Love has set no boundaries, one that freely express what she feels about love.
Although the two are both poems of love, the differences are shown of two different individuals where one has found true love (Sharon’s True Love) while the other is still questioning the validity of the existence of true love because she has not found true love at all (Szymborska’s True Love).
5. Compare “To His Importunate Mistress” to Andrew Marvell’s famed “To His Coy Mistres”. What kind of statement do you think De Vries is making about Marvell’s classic?
Devries is mocking Marvell. The first two lines would clearly describe the affirmation that his coyness was a crime. The whole coying has been too costly that even creditors have haunted him. His love for the mistress is more of impressing her than himself. He is showing that he can show him the world even if he is taking risks of ruining his finances. It is also sad that even a man without the financial means to support a mistress, would still go out of his way to support this vice. The irony is, when he ran out of resources (finances) to support their rendezvous, the mistress left him without showing any kind of feelings. Devries’ poem also shows that when the “mouse is playing”, there are always consequences and most of the time, there is a winner and a loser. That money talks in every aspect of life (especially in this time of age). For Devries, he knew what he was going into; the temptress was too hard to pass.
In contrary, Marvell’s “To His Coy Mistress”, this was more of a man professing almost like an eternal love for the mistress. Marvell’s is more on true love rather than just a fling. He said that, “Of Humber would complain. I would Love you ten years before the Flood. And you should, if you please, refuse Till the conversion of the Jews.” This depicts time. That also said, in line 13 to 17, this is when even when they are old, wrinkly and no longer attractive, his love for her does not rely on the outside image but of what is in her heart.
These two poems talks about the persona’s mistress, the different kinds of love, the lessons learned of having to “play” around, and what true love should be.
week one question one
The concept of romantic love in the story "Story of an hour" demonstrates a rarely spoken of aspect of love, that of imprisonment. Something that in the beginning seemed so sweet and beautiful, can become so ugly and smothering. Not that it happens intentionally, it just becomes a byproduct of giving yourself completely to another person. As the story describes the absolute elation of finally being granted freedom, "she knew she would weep again when she saw the kind, tender hands folded in death; the face that had never looked save with love upon her fixed and grey and dead. But she saw beyond that bitter moment a long procession of years to come that would belong to her absolutely. And she opened and spread her arms to them in welcome". As the author describes, the woman didnt feel unloved or abused, just trapped in a love she hadn't thought possible to escape to escape untill that time. Even though the husband lived, she was able to achieve her own freedom through her own death.
As question three asks, does this challenge your definitions/beliefs of romantic love? Yes it does challenge my beliefs, because my belief in romantic love is that it should be open happy and free, not stifeling or imprisoning. Also it does show how feelings and beliefs can change over time. In the beggning everything is roses, over time those roses wilt and die.
As question three asks, does this challenge your definitions/beliefs of romantic love? Yes it does challenge my beliefs, because my belief in romantic love is that it should be open happy and free, not stifeling or imprisoning. Also it does show how feelings and beliefs can change over time. In the beggning everything is roses, over time those roses wilt and die.
Discussion Set 1
The reading this week was interesting, that’s for sure! With that said, I’ll get straight to my answers…..
For question 1, about the concept of how romantic love is treated, I chose to use “The Story of an Hour”. It was the last one I read and was disappointed at how short it was! AGH! The agony at the end! Anyway, in this story, the concept of romantic love I think is thrown to the wind. Mrs. Mallard, upon receiving the news that her husband died in a train wreck, acts as society would expect her to. Flailing around, sobbing, locking herself in her room etc. In her mind is obviously a different story, she doesn’t want to admit that she feels free BEFORE deciding to poison herself. With before as the key word there, I was lead to believe that she didn’t marry for romantic or true love, but rather for security and filling her call of duty. Her free feelings came from being bound in a relationship she wasn’t happy in? Free from the “duty” to which a married woman is call to? That’s what women did in the time this story appeared to take place. Romantic love in this instance treated as a chore, something that is thought to be trivial and unnecessary after one marries…..a rite of passage if you will. I wonder though, imagine how Mrs. Mallard must have felt after she saw her husband. I wonder if she was thinking selfishly of her own tragedy, losing her life or if she was wishing she could take back her decision and give “duty” another chance? I guess we’ll never know.
The second question I chose to answer was number four, comparing and contrasting “True Love”. Those were also interesting to read, as the two women had such a different take on what true love was all about. To start, the poem by Wislawa Szymborska, was one in which the author seemed irritated. I couldn’t help but think that she was unhappy and had experiences with relationships that were unfavorable. She must have been surrounded by a bunch of newlyweds! Her poem had tunnel vision in my opinion; she didn’t seem to consider that true love may exist beyond what she was seeing when she gazed at couples in their own world. The structure of the poem I liked better that the one by Sharon Olds, because it posed a question, then answered it right away. It was easier to read! Also, I didn’t feel as though Szymborska’s tone was gleeful (obviously). Sharon Olds had a much more lighthearted approach to her version of True Love. The structure was not as defined but its desired effect of True Love as reality sees fit, was more in tune with the relationship beyond the newlywed stage. She made true love as a way of being happy with her entire situation, as though true love was a cohesive concept. I like the line “I know where you are with my eyes closed”. What could be better than that? What a fabulous sense of security!
For question 1, about the concept of how romantic love is treated, I chose to use “The Story of an Hour”. It was the last one I read and was disappointed at how short it was! AGH! The agony at the end! Anyway, in this story, the concept of romantic love I think is thrown to the wind. Mrs. Mallard, upon receiving the news that her husband died in a train wreck, acts as society would expect her to. Flailing around, sobbing, locking herself in her room etc. In her mind is obviously a different story, she doesn’t want to admit that she feels free BEFORE deciding to poison herself. With before as the key word there, I was lead to believe that she didn’t marry for romantic or true love, but rather for security and filling her call of duty. Her free feelings came from being bound in a relationship she wasn’t happy in? Free from the “duty” to which a married woman is call to? That’s what women did in the time this story appeared to take place. Romantic love in this instance treated as a chore, something that is thought to be trivial and unnecessary after one marries…..a rite of passage if you will. I wonder though, imagine how Mrs. Mallard must have felt after she saw her husband. I wonder if she was thinking selfishly of her own tragedy, losing her life or if she was wishing she could take back her decision and give “duty” another chance? I guess we’ll never know.
The second question I chose to answer was number four, comparing and contrasting “True Love”. Those were also interesting to read, as the two women had such a different take on what true love was all about. To start, the poem by Wislawa Szymborska, was one in which the author seemed irritated. I couldn’t help but think that she was unhappy and had experiences with relationships that were unfavorable. She must have been surrounded by a bunch of newlyweds! Her poem had tunnel vision in my opinion; she didn’t seem to consider that true love may exist beyond what she was seeing when she gazed at couples in their own world. The structure of the poem I liked better that the one by Sharon Olds, because it posed a question, then answered it right away. It was easier to read! Also, I didn’t feel as though Szymborska’s tone was gleeful (obviously). Sharon Olds had a much more lighthearted approach to her version of True Love. The structure was not as defined but its desired effect of True Love as reality sees fit, was more in tune with the relationship beyond the newlywed stage. She made true love as a way of being happy with her entire situation, as though true love was a cohesive concept. I like the line “I know where you are with my eyes closed”. What could be better than that? What a fabulous sense of security!
Does anyone still need the book??
Might I recommend chegg.com to you all. I rented the book for $25 plus shipping (I think it came to $31 because I wanted express shipping). That's a load cheaper than you can get it used in the bookstore, and when I was there on Thursday they didn't even have it yet. Ordered today or tomorrow, you'll definitely have it by the end of the week and you just return it at the end of the semester. Chegg pays for your return shipping and it doesn't have to be postmarked till 12/21, which is way after our final.
I linked straight to our text below, hope that helps some of you guys who are having a hard time functioning without the book!
http://www.chegg.com/details/making-literature-matter-an-anthology-for-readers-and-writers/0312474911/
I linked straight to our text below, hope that helps some of you guys who are having a hard time functioning without the book!
http://www.chegg.com/details/making-literature-matter-an-anthology-for-readers-and-writers/0312474911/
Question Set #1
3. Does the selection you chose challenge the definition/beliefs you have about romantic love? How so? Does it correspond to your definition/beliefs? How so?
I enjoyed Kate Chopin's "The Story of an Hour". I think that individuals in most relationships, if people are honest with themselves and others, have at some point felt that they have lost their individuality and/or freedom to be who they are, and have instead been swallowed up by their partners presence. This feeling of constrains within a relationship is normal, as relationships are basically built around compromise, sacrifice, and putting the other person first. In doing so, there will be moments of wishing that all you had to think about was yourself and not another. What I find so ironic about the human race is that once a person has gotten out of an relationship, they are soon earnestly searching to be in another. Usually never satisfied with either being in a relationship or being out of one.
I found the ending of the story to be amusing when Louise, who for a very brief moment found herself free from such a relationship with her husband Brently Mallard, was confronted with the reality that she had not left at all, and thus died from the shock of being back where she was.
5. Compare “To His Importunate Mistress” to Andrew Marvell’s famed “To His Coy Mistress”. What kind of statement do you think De Vries is making about Marvell’s classic?
In Andrew Marvell's "To His Coy Mistress", he is presenting the argument to his soon to be mistress, that while he would like to take the slow route of courting her, now is the time to indulge in love with all its sexual pleasures, as life goes by quickly and once you have died you have lost the moment forever.
Peter De Vries on the other hand in writing "To His Importunate Mistress", speaks of the other side of having a lover by the title itself. A Mistress can be persistent in demands, notably on the financial side. While Marvell is persauding a woman to be his lover, De Vries is couseling men to think twice about taking on a lover if you have a wife. Both women will want your time, attention and money, leaving the man with the short end of the stick. It's a "tongue in cheek" approach to the reality side of trying to please two women at once.
I enjoyed Kate Chopin's "The Story of an Hour". I think that individuals in most relationships, if people are honest with themselves and others, have at some point felt that they have lost their individuality and/or freedom to be who they are, and have instead been swallowed up by their partners presence. This feeling of constrains within a relationship is normal, as relationships are basically built around compromise, sacrifice, and putting the other person first. In doing so, there will be moments of wishing that all you had to think about was yourself and not another. What I find so ironic about the human race is that once a person has gotten out of an relationship, they are soon earnestly searching to be in another. Usually never satisfied with either being in a relationship or being out of one.
I found the ending of the story to be amusing when Louise, who for a very brief moment found herself free from such a relationship with her husband Brently Mallard, was confronted with the reality that she had not left at all, and thus died from the shock of being back where she was.
5. Compare “To His Importunate Mistress” to Andrew Marvell’s famed “To His Coy Mistress”. What kind of statement do you think De Vries is making about Marvell’s classic?
In Andrew Marvell's "To His Coy Mistress", he is presenting the argument to his soon to be mistress, that while he would like to take the slow route of courting her, now is the time to indulge in love with all its sexual pleasures, as life goes by quickly and once you have died you have lost the moment forever.
Peter De Vries on the other hand in writing "To His Importunate Mistress", speaks of the other side of having a lover by the title itself. A Mistress can be persistent in demands, notably on the financial side. While Marvell is persauding a woman to be his lover, De Vries is couseling men to think twice about taking on a lover if you have a wife. Both women will want your time, attention and money, leaving the man with the short end of the stick. It's a "tongue in cheek" approach to the reality side of trying to please two women at once.
English 103 Blog #1
English 103 Blog #1
Discussion Question #1
1) Choose a selection from Week 1 and explain how the concept of romantic love is treated. Does it offer a traditional take or challenge typical conventions (i.e., we should date/marry for romantic love rather than security; everyone should find/have a “soul mate”; “true” love lasts forever; romantic love should be reserved for a man and a woman, etc.)
The reading pieces for this week were quite enlightening to me. I have never read so many different pieces that had so many different ideas. The romance pieces that we read were a good example of this. Some of them centered on true love forever, others on seduction, while others centered on love being nothing but a vague idea. This was the case with the romantic piece, “True Love,” written by Wislawa Szymboska. Szymboska wrote this romantic piece and treats love as something that is something to be desired, but that is not attainable for everyone. This came to mind after reading the end of Szymboska’s poem: “Let the people who never find true love keep saying that there’s no such thing. Their faith will make it easier for them to live and die” (Schilb and Clifford 623). This was rather a bold slap in reality, but one I realized that is true. Not everyone finds true love. I thought of a good connection to Szymboska’s poem regarding wealthy and poor people. Everyone wants wealth and riches, but sometimes it is only attainable by certain people. Not everyone is extremely rich with no debts and a carefree life – there will always be a monetary gap in society. When reading this romantic poem by Szymboska, I was making that same comparison because that is exactly how Szymboska is treating love. Furthermore, she wonders if true love is even practical in the real world. Szymboska states, “True love. Is it normal, is it serious, is it practical? What does the world get from two people who exist in a world of their own?” (Schilb and Clifford 623). Does it benefit anyone other than the two people who are in love? No, and love that two happy couples feel should be hid from society. In my opinion, Szymboska challenges the traditional ideas of love (that love is not forever, and that it is not for everyone). In fact, I have never read a poem such as hers. Another thing that I was amazed about in her poem is that she suggested that love should be hid for the sake of others! She acts like it is a disgusting, vulgar thing that must be eliminated off of the face of the planet: “Look at the happy couple! Couldn’t they at least try to hide it, fake a little depression for their friends’ sake! Listen to them laughing – it’s an insult. The language they use – deceptively clear. And their little celebrations, rituals, the elaborate routines – it’s obviously a plot behind the human race’s back!” (Schilb and Clifford 623). Basically, Szymboska treats the concept of romantic love as a big joke. True love is not for everyone and people should face this reality. But could this be that the author was hurt by her own true love and therefore wrote a poem harshly criticizing it? That was what I was thinking a little bit after reading this piece. This criticism has to come from somewhere; maybe it came from the depths of the author’s soul. No matter where it came from, the author’s point is clear. In the poem, “True Love,” written by Wislawa Szymboska, the concept of romantic love is treated harshly and explains to its audience that if they face the fact that they may never find “the one,” it will be easier to live and die more comfortably.
Discussion Question #3
3) Does the selection you chose challenge the definition/beliefs you have about romantic love? How so? Does it correspond to your definition/beliefs? How so?
In the romantic short story, “The Story of an Hour,” written by Kate Chopin, Mrs. Mallard was confronted with the grim news that she was going to have to spend the rest of her life without her husband. At the beginning of the short story, Chopin explains how Mrs. Mallard was “afflicted with heart trouble” and that “great care was taken to break to her as gently as possible the news of her husband’s death” (Schilb and Clifford 688). After I read this, it made me think that Mrs. Mallard was a delicate woman who was deeply in love with her husband, and that the news of his death would kill her. I thought that it would kill her because she loved him deeply. Not so. This romantic piece that I chose does challenge my beliefs about romantic love. It challenges my belief system because I believed that marriage was for love, and if something terrible happened in the marriage, the marriage should be dissolved. Furthermore, I believed that if two people truly did not love each other in the first place, they should not have married in the first place. After I finished reading the short story, I was amazed at how liberated Mrs. Mallard was when she found out that she was not going to be spending the rest of her life with her husband, Brently Mallard. Mrs. Mallard felt utter freedom at her husband’s death: “There would be no one to live for during those coming years: she would live for herself. There would be no powerful will bending hers in that blind persistence with which men and women believe they have a right to impose a private will upon a fellow-creature”(Schilb and Clifford 689). Mrs. Mallard felt that her life had finally had begun after hearing the news of her husband’s death: “Free! Body and soul free!” she kept whispering. Her fancy was running riot along those days ahead of her. Spring days, and summer days, and all sorts of days that would be her own. She breathed a quick prayer that life might be long. It was only yesterday she had thought with a shudder that life might be long” (Schilb and Clifford 689). After reading these critical parts of the story, it revealed just how miserable Mrs. Mallard was in her marriage. When she heard about the death of her husband, it seem as though she was released from her bondage. However, something amazing happened: Mr. Mallard reappeared! In fact, he never died and it was a mistake: “Some one was opening the front door with a latchkey. It was Brently Mallard who entered, a little traveled-stained, composedly carrying his gripsack and umbrella. He had been far from the scene of accident, and did not even know there had been one” (Schilb and Clifford 689). When Mrs. Mallard found out that her husband was in fact, alive, and well, it killed her: “When the doctors came they said she had died of heart disease – of joy that kills” (Schilb and Clifford 689). Mrs. Mallard was so upset that her husband was alive that her heart stopped. It was a tragic end, and really, a tragic story. If Mrs. Mallard was that miserable, she and her husband should have separated. She should not have stayed out of a sense of duty to her husband; living a miserable life is not living at all. Or, if they really did not truly love each other in the beginning of their lives, they should not have gotten married. However, maybe they did not have a choice if it was arranged for them. Or, maybe they did love each other once, and things happened that caused their feelings toward each other to change. No matter the circumstances regarding the marriage, this romantic piece does challenge my belief system, and it does not correspond at all to my belief system. I would not marry anyone unless I was sure he was “the one.” However, if things started to fall apart or get dangerous in my marriage, I would divorce my husband. I would not waste years and years of my life, making myself miserable. I would not let anything in my life get to the point where it would kill me. The romantic short story, “The Story of an Hour,” is a tragic story about how relationships can be dangerous to our health, and that we have a responsibility to not just other people, but ourselves as well.
Week 1: Discussion Questions
4. Compare/contrast the two versions of "True Love". You can go a number of places with this question, but you should focus on the effect that each poem produces given its use of diction, tone, general structure, imagery, and the like.
"True Love" written by Wislawa Szymborska is a sarcastic poem that focuses on couples who show their love in front of others that simply do not want to see it. She is mocking the people that become mad and outraged at anyone who claims to be in love. There are moments where any human being can look at someone else and become annoyed with the public acts that appear to be to intimate for the public's eyes. Szymborska takes every statement to the extreme. Instead of a small outrage over the tiniest public display of affection, she makes the nonbelievers of true love say quotes such as "It couldn't populate the planet in a million years". The whole poem she is making people feel that there may be really something these people in love are hiding from the world until she reaches the end of the poem. Szymborska then throws it back in their faces that "Their faith will make it easier for them to live and die" if they continue to tell themselves that true love is nonexistent.
"True Love" written by Sharon Old is the most sincere of the two poems. They both use metaphors or similes of some kind to compare what the love is doing to people. This poem by Old is full of romantic passion and the realness of love that can be between two individuals. There is a "complete friendship" that is integrated into the relationship that makes it the strongest it can become. While Szymborska pokes fun at the people that scowl at the thought of love, Old shows the two people that are actually in love and the uniqueness of the connection that is made. Both "True Love" poems can make the reader rethink their whole opinion on the possibility of love, and turn them into believers of positive thinking leading to a true love of their own.
5. Compare “To His Importunate Mistress” to Andrew Marvell’s famed “To His Coy Mistress”. What kind of statement do you think De Vries is making about Marvell’s classic?
In the classic "To His Coy Mistress" the narrator appears to be telling this young lady that the time will fly by and they need to live for the moment. Since the woman is said to be coy, you can imagine that she is a modest woman that is not exactly giving Marvell what he actually wants. He is using the excuse of them needing to take advantage of all the moments given to them to perhaps fulfill his own personal needs. He is giving the young woman praises, but he makes himself appear quite desperately impatient. The narrator, which is in first person, makes it seem like the words coming from him to the "coy mistress" are out of true love, but they may be for his own desirous reasons.
In De Vries poem "To His Importunate Mistress", he touches some of the same ground, but with his own twist of the story. De Vries makes it seem that if he does indeed get the girl, then she will become his demanding mistress. He will pay for everything and make sure it is the best, and this will lead to him being in debt for the love of his mistress. This version of the poem makes it all about the fact that love can be all about money and how fast it disappears. De Vries wants Marvell to know that love is not what everyone thinks it can be. There are occasional disadvantages to finally getting what you want.
"True Love" written by Wislawa Szymborska is a sarcastic poem that focuses on couples who show their love in front of others that simply do not want to see it. She is mocking the people that become mad and outraged at anyone who claims to be in love. There are moments where any human being can look at someone else and become annoyed with the public acts that appear to be to intimate for the public's eyes. Szymborska takes every statement to the extreme. Instead of a small outrage over the tiniest public display of affection, she makes the nonbelievers of true love say quotes such as "It couldn't populate the planet in a million years". The whole poem she is making people feel that there may be really something these people in love are hiding from the world until she reaches the end of the poem. Szymborska then throws it back in their faces that "Their faith will make it easier for them to live and die" if they continue to tell themselves that true love is nonexistent.
"True Love" written by Sharon Old is the most sincere of the two poems. They both use metaphors or similes of some kind to compare what the love is doing to people. This poem by Old is full of romantic passion and the realness of love that can be between two individuals. There is a "complete friendship" that is integrated into the relationship that makes it the strongest it can become. While Szymborska pokes fun at the people that scowl at the thought of love, Old shows the two people that are actually in love and the uniqueness of the connection that is made. Both "True Love" poems can make the reader rethink their whole opinion on the possibility of love, and turn them into believers of positive thinking leading to a true love of their own.
5. Compare “To His Importunate Mistress” to Andrew Marvell’s famed “To His Coy Mistress”. What kind of statement do you think De Vries is making about Marvell’s classic?
In the classic "To His Coy Mistress" the narrator appears to be telling this young lady that the time will fly by and they need to live for the moment. Since the woman is said to be coy, you can imagine that she is a modest woman that is not exactly giving Marvell what he actually wants. He is using the excuse of them needing to take advantage of all the moments given to them to perhaps fulfill his own personal needs. He is giving the young woman praises, but he makes himself appear quite desperately impatient. The narrator, which is in first person, makes it seem like the words coming from him to the "coy mistress" are out of true love, but they may be for his own desirous reasons.
In De Vries poem "To His Importunate Mistress", he touches some of the same ground, but with his own twist of the story. De Vries makes it seem that if he does indeed get the girl, then she will become his demanding mistress. He will pay for everything and make sure it is the best, and this will lead to him being in debt for the love of his mistress. This version of the poem makes it all about the fact that love can be all about money and how fast it disappears. De Vries wants Marvell to know that love is not what everyone thinks it can be. There are occasional disadvantages to finally getting what you want.
Saturday, August 22, 2009
Week One Discussion Questions
Questions One and Two
1.Choose a selection from Week 1 and explain how the concept of romantic love is treated.
Peter DeVries poem “In To His Importunate Mistress,” the concept of romantic love is not treated it seems more of a burden. As he describes the new responsibilities that come along with marriage it seems as if all that will come is bad but the worst will be that having a wife and a mistress will cost him double his wallet. As for romantic love, he seems to show that he adores his mistress. He lavishes her with extravagant evenings and gifts, “Obeisance at your marble feet Deserves the best-appointed suite.” It seems that the romantic love is only being treated for the girl and not his wife. Even though in the end he must let her go because he does not have the money to support two at a time, he recommends that even though another girl could be ideal it will cost you.
2.What broader statement (theme) is your chosen text making about romantic love?
In Andrew Marvell’s poem “To His Coy Mistress” the theme of seizing the day is present. He gives off the vibe that people should live their lives to the fullest because life is too short. He begins with “Had we but world enough, and time,” which clearly suggests that if they did not seize the day, life and time were to short. Another line that relates to the theme, is that time passes quickly and you are not always going to be young. “while the youthful hue Sits on thy skin like morning dew,” before they know it, their youth will be gone. The couple should take advantage of life while they can. He suggests that they will not have forever to be together. This is an important theme and meaningful because Marvell is right. Time goes by quickly and we should all seize the day, each and every day.
1.Choose a selection from Week 1 and explain how the concept of romantic love is treated.
Peter DeVries poem “In To His Importunate Mistress,” the concept of romantic love is not treated it seems more of a burden. As he describes the new responsibilities that come along with marriage it seems as if all that will come is bad but the worst will be that having a wife and a mistress will cost him double his wallet. As for romantic love, he seems to show that he adores his mistress. He lavishes her with extravagant evenings and gifts, “Obeisance at your marble feet Deserves the best-appointed suite.” It seems that the romantic love is only being treated for the girl and not his wife. Even though in the end he must let her go because he does not have the money to support two at a time, he recommends that even though another girl could be ideal it will cost you.
2.What broader statement (theme) is your chosen text making about romantic love?
In Andrew Marvell’s poem “To His Coy Mistress” the theme of seizing the day is present. He gives off the vibe that people should live their lives to the fullest because life is too short. He begins with “Had we but world enough, and time,” which clearly suggests that if they did not seize the day, life and time were to short. Another line that relates to the theme, is that time passes quickly and you are not always going to be young. “while the youthful hue Sits on thy skin like morning dew,” before they know it, their youth will be gone. The couple should take advantage of life while they can. He suggests that they will not have forever to be together. This is an important theme and meaningful because Marvell is right. Time goes by quickly and we should all seize the day, each and every day.
About Reed
Hello. My name is Reed Steiner I'm 19, live in Elsinore....my whole life, and this is my third semester at MSJC. English is my last an final class I need for my general ed. (saving the best for last ;]). The rest of my classes this semester are art class that I am taking for my Art Major, and am I enrolled in classes at both MSJC and RCC. Now I am planning to transfer to CSULB next Fall because, as some of you may know, all the Cal States aren't accepting anyone in the Spring, sucks for us. :'( I guess it's going to be a free semester to paint and work.
This is my second year working at Lakeside High as an AVID tutor and really enjoy working with the kids. I go to First Lutheran Church in Lake Elsinore and do my best to live in Christ. I love spending time with my fam and girlfriend, playing guitar, singing, going to school, drawing portraits, watching movies, The Dave Matthews Band, eating, traveling, reading, going to the beach. Had an awesome summer did some camping in the redwoods and a lot of reading. The End. Oh and if you are interested you can check out some of my art at http://icantreed.deviantart.com
Let the Englishing begin!
Disscussion Questions Set #1
1)
Kate Chopin's "The Story of an Hour" is not your typical romance story. It might almost be argued that it is "unromantic" because as the story goes on the reader finds that the supposed widowed women, Mrs. Mallard, does not romantically love her husband as she seems to do in the begin. When she hears news of her husband's death "she wept at once, with sudden, wild abandonment...When the storm of grief had spent itself she went away to her room alone" (3). The reader would think that this is a typical reaction to the death of a beloved spouse, but the reader suspects something when the tone of the story change, in paragraph four, from an image gloomy death changes to the freshness of being, "[Mrs. Mallard] could see in the open square before her house the tops of trees that were aquivered with the new spring of life. The delicious breath of rain was in the air". Spring is a strange junkstaposition with the death of someone's lover. If Mrs. Mallard ever loved her husband with the stereotypical love we think of today it was short lived.
Mr. and Mrs. Mallard do not have the typical love the way most modern American marriage might be thought of today. Now that Mr. Mallard is dead she feels a new sense of "possession and self-assertion" and feels that here body and soul are now free. The love that she had for her husband was her display of submission and obedience to him, which was expected at the time (but are probably not as far removed from our society as we think). The Mallards lived in time were romantic love was secondary to martial roles seen by society. This is why she died at the end of the story when she finds that her husband is still alive. It is her only way achieve the sense of freedom and independence she felt when she thought Mr. Mallard was dead.
5)
I read "To His Coy Mistress" by Marvell in my senior year of high school and thought it was peculiar, and now after rereading my mind has not changed. If I were a woman and some strange man gave me this poem that said "Two hundred years to adore each breast, But thirty thousand to the rest"(15-16) I think I would stay as far away as humanly possible. No wonder the poor woman was so coy. It seems as if women was not Marvell strongest department. De Vries found "To His Coy Mistress" to be strange just like me. De Vries wrote "To His Importunate Mistress" as a satirical response to Marvell's poem.
It might be possible that De Vries read "To his Coy Mistress" in school, just like me, and decided it was creepy. He might have written his poem to poke some fun at it because he also was amazed someone from the seventeen century could be so perverted. The reader clearly knows he is making fun of the classic because the title match ("To his Coy Mistress" and "To His Importunate Mistress"), some of the lines are similar [ "But at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near But at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot, striking fear"(3-4)], and both poems are written in rhyming couplets. Marvell and De Vries obviously have an obsession with women, but De Vries is essentially saying that Marvell is wrong and love is not all it's cracked up to be. The poem goes on about how all a women do is drain your bank account and how you have to work two jobs to pleasure yourself. De Vries would hate to live in deserts of vast eternity earning money so he can stare at breast, like what Marvell wants to do. I thought Devries was funny and did a good job playing off Marvell's poem and now cannot imagine reading one without the other.
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