English 103 Blog #2
Discussion Set #2
1) Choose one of the "critical contexts" selections based on “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufock.” This is a beautiful but highly complex and difficult to understand poem, so reading the context literature will really help you make some sense of it. Keep in mind also that Eliot, who headed the theory of interpretation referred to as either formalism or New Criticism believed that good literature should be highly complex and difficult to understand, that readers would benefit from having to work to achieve meaning. You'll read about this theory later on in the class. To the question: what did you get from the contextual article you read? Do you agree with the author? Disagree? How do you feel about the poem having read this interpretation? (Hint: do not assume the critic is automatically "right" -- he/she offers an interpretation -- yes, a scholarly, professional one, but this by no means makes the interpretation the only valid one out there.
After reading this blog question for the week, I have to say I whole-heartedly agree with it! I thought that T.S. Eliot’s “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock” was a beautiful love poem; however, I had to read the poem three to four times to fully understand what was going on. I thought there was something wrong with me because I did not comprehend the poem (I am glad that was not the case, however!JJ). Even though it was a difficult poem to understand, it does not mean that I did not enjoy it once I got the full idea of what the poem was about – a marriage proposal or some type of sexual proposition. The supplemental critical context selections to the poem greatly aided to my understanding of the text. The critical context selection that aided me most in decoding Eliot’s poem was Bruce Hayman’s “From How Old is Prufrock? Does He Want to Get Married?” It was an excellent, scholarly selection that shed light on Eliot’s love poem.
After I read Bruce Hayman’s contextual article, “From How Old is Prufrock? Does He Want to Get Married?” I would have to say I agree with Hayman. He makes valid points about what could be occurring in the poem with solid evidence from the poem. Believe it or not, I feel the poem is actually a sexual proposition, and that Hayman’s contextual article reconfirmed this for me. There were quite a few clues in the poem that popped out of the textbook. One thing that I found quite curious about the poem was its title: “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.” The title of the poem suggested to me (before I read Hayman’s text) that he was going to sing to his dear girlfriend, or even to his beloved wife. However, that was not the case. I found the poem to be a division between what Prufrock wanted – which was either a proper marriage with a proper woman, or just to have sex with a beautiful woman. Another thing that bothered me about this poem – like Hayman – is that this mysterious woman that Prufrock is discussing does not have a name. She is a mere description in the poem, nothing more: “Arms that are braceleted and white and bare (But in the lamplight, downed with light brown hair!) (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 634). Furthermore, I agree that Prufrock was aroused by this woman because he mentioned in the poem how the woman’s perfume affected him: “Is it perfume from a dress that makes me so digress?” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 634). From the clues in Eliot’s poems, it is apparent that Prufrock was more interested in a sexual proposition with this woman than a marriage proposal. The fact that this woman does not have a name and he is just referring to her by her best sexual properties should be clues that this is the only thing he is interested in. Therefore, I agree with Bruce Hayman’s contextual article, “From How Old is Prufrock? Does He Want to Get Married?”
After I read Bruce Hayman’s contextual article, “From How Old is Prufrock? Does He Want to Get Married?” I felt much more enlightened about my view on T.S. Eliot’s poem. After I read T.S. Eliot’s poem a few times, I felt that it was more of a sexual proposition. Hayman’s interpretation of the poem enlightened me on a couple of things I did not understand about what was going on in this proposal. For example, Hayman states that the only time that Prufrock and this woman did spend together was when “she allows him to be alone with her while she lounges on pillows on the floor” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 641). Furthermore, Hayman suggests that Prufock depicts the woman as “lounging on the floor beside him among assorted pillows. This depiction suggests a more relaxed, informal, and sexual environment” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 641). However, the one thing that truly enlightened me about this poem was the last few sentences of Hayman’s interpretation that suggests that this is indeed a sexual proposition: “But Prufock sees this woman as a test case, a kind of conscious Rubicon. If he cannot force himself to make a sexual proposition to this unnamed, generic female commodity, he feels doomed to an sexual life of virginity – a devastating prospect if it is undesired. To him, she is, in a sense, all women. In other words, he is thinking: “I cannot succeed with this woman: therefore, I will never succeed with any woman, and my life will always be a lonely, asexual hell.” That is the prospect which makes this encounter so crucial to him and which makes it appear, along with the other evidence, that Prufrock’s question is a sexual proposition” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 642). This last part of the paragraph truly clarified what was going on in Prufrock’s mind. All of the clues that were in the poem all of a sudden came together to this grand conclusion – Prufrock needed to pass the test with this woman, or else he would never be able to marry or approach another woman again. I found this last part of Hayman’s interpretation quite enlightening.
Additionally, I got a lot more clarification about what else could be going on in the poem. Hayman explains in his contextual article that a marriage proposal is another possibility in T.S. Eliot’s poem. I picked that up a little bit in the poem, but not too much. Hayman uses examples from the poem that suggests this could also be a possibility because of Prufrock’s upper-class status: “He is well-educated and articulate, and he seems to refer to drawing rooms where women discuss Michelangelo or from which music emerges. There are also a lot of proper, upper-middle class things in the poem: plates, toast, tea, marmalade, coffee spoons, cakes, ices, novels, dooryards, shawls, and terraces. All of these proper things suggest a proper environment where one has proper relationships” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 640). This part of Bruce Hayman’s clarification of Eliot’s poem opened my eyes to what else could be happening in the poem. The poem was not just centered on sexual propositions, but it could also been centered on a marriage proposal to a mystery, lovely young woman with no name (which still somewhat bothers me). But, I feel that I understand the poem much more because I am seeing it with two different sets of eyes instead of what I saw. Reading Bruce Hayman’s contextual article, “From How Old is Prufrock? Does He Want to Get Married?” caused the light bulb to “click” in my brain, and the effect of this was better understanding of T.S. Eliot’s poem, “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.”
After reading this blog question for the week, I have to say I whole-heartedly agree with it! I thought that T.S. Eliot’s “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock” was a beautiful love poem; however, I had to read the poem three to four times to fully understand what was going on. I thought there was something wrong with me because I did not comprehend the poem (I am glad that was not the case, however!JJ). Even though it was a difficult poem to understand, it does not mean that I did not enjoy it once I got the full idea of what the poem was about – a marriage proposal or some type of sexual proposition. The supplemental critical context selections to the poem greatly aided to my understanding of the text. The critical context selection that aided me most in decoding Eliot’s poem was Bruce Hayman’s “From How Old is Prufrock? Does He Want to Get Married?” It was an excellent, scholarly selection that shed light on Eliot’s love poem.
After I read Bruce Hayman’s contextual article, “From How Old is Prufrock? Does He Want to Get Married?” I would have to say I agree with Hayman. He makes valid points about what could be occurring in the poem with solid evidence from the poem. Believe it or not, I feel the poem is actually a sexual proposition, and that Hayman’s contextual article reconfirmed this for me. There were quite a few clues in the poem that popped out of the textbook. One thing that I found quite curious about the poem was its title: “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.” The title of the poem suggested to me (before I read Hayman’s text) that he was going to sing to his dear girlfriend, or even to his beloved wife. However, that was not the case. I found the poem to be a division between what Prufrock wanted – which was either a proper marriage with a proper woman, or just to have sex with a beautiful woman. Another thing that bothered me about this poem – like Hayman – is that this mysterious woman that Prufrock is discussing does not have a name. She is a mere description in the poem, nothing more: “Arms that are braceleted and white and bare (But in the lamplight, downed with light brown hair!) (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 634). Furthermore, I agree that Prufrock was aroused by this woman because he mentioned in the poem how the woman’s perfume affected him: “Is it perfume from a dress that makes me so digress?” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 634). From the clues in Eliot’s poems, it is apparent that Prufrock was more interested in a sexual proposition with this woman than a marriage proposal. The fact that this woman does not have a name and he is just referring to her by her best sexual properties should be clues that this is the only thing he is interested in. Therefore, I agree with Bruce Hayman’s contextual article, “From How Old is Prufrock? Does He Want to Get Married?”
After I read Bruce Hayman’s contextual article, “From How Old is Prufrock? Does He Want to Get Married?” I felt much more enlightened about my view on T.S. Eliot’s poem. After I read T.S. Eliot’s poem a few times, I felt that it was more of a sexual proposition. Hayman’s interpretation of the poem enlightened me on a couple of things I did not understand about what was going on in this proposal. For example, Hayman states that the only time that Prufrock and this woman did spend together was when “she allows him to be alone with her while she lounges on pillows on the floor” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 641). Furthermore, Hayman suggests that Prufock depicts the woman as “lounging on the floor beside him among assorted pillows. This depiction suggests a more relaxed, informal, and sexual environment” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 641). However, the one thing that truly enlightened me about this poem was the last few sentences of Hayman’s interpretation that suggests that this is indeed a sexual proposition: “But Prufock sees this woman as a test case, a kind of conscious Rubicon. If he cannot force himself to make a sexual proposition to this unnamed, generic female commodity, he feels doomed to an sexual life of virginity – a devastating prospect if it is undesired. To him, she is, in a sense, all women. In other words, he is thinking: “I cannot succeed with this woman: therefore, I will never succeed with any woman, and my life will always be a lonely, asexual hell.” That is the prospect which makes this encounter so crucial to him and which makes it appear, along with the other evidence, that Prufrock’s question is a sexual proposition” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 642). This last part of the paragraph truly clarified what was going on in Prufrock’s mind. All of the clues that were in the poem all of a sudden came together to this grand conclusion – Prufrock needed to pass the test with this woman, or else he would never be able to marry or approach another woman again. I found this last part of Hayman’s interpretation quite enlightening.
Additionally, I got a lot more clarification about what else could be going on in the poem. Hayman explains in his contextual article that a marriage proposal is another possibility in T.S. Eliot’s poem. I picked that up a little bit in the poem, but not too much. Hayman uses examples from the poem that suggests this could also be a possibility because of Prufrock’s upper-class status: “He is well-educated and articulate, and he seems to refer to drawing rooms where women discuss Michelangelo or from which music emerges. There are also a lot of proper, upper-middle class things in the poem: plates, toast, tea, marmalade, coffee spoons, cakes, ices, novels, dooryards, shawls, and terraces. All of these proper things suggest a proper environment where one has proper relationships” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 640). This part of Bruce Hayman’s clarification of Eliot’s poem opened my eyes to what else could be happening in the poem. The poem was not just centered on sexual propositions, but it could also been centered on a marriage proposal to a mystery, lovely young woman with no name (which still somewhat bothers me). But, I feel that I understand the poem much more because I am seeing it with two different sets of eyes instead of what I saw. Reading Bruce Hayman’s contextual article, “From How Old is Prufrock? Does He Want to Get Married?” caused the light bulb to “click” in my brain, and the effect of this was better understanding of T.S. Eliot’s poem, “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.”
6) From your text (and you may answer this one in first-person as it invites a “reader-response”-themed response.) Are you bothered by [“The Storm’s”] happy ending? Are stories supposed to reinforce the dominant values of a society? What do you think would (or should) have happened in real life?” (658)
In Kate Chopin’s, “The Storm,” everyone was very happy and ignoring the obvious problems that existed in their families. In fact, everyone was just too happy, and I found it quite disturbing. Both of the families (Bobinot’s family and Alcee’s family) were jovial with not a care in the world, even though both families had obvious problems that needed to work out. Let me start with Bobinot’s family. Bobinot and his wife, Calixta, have problems in their marriage that manifests itself to the reader during the storm. When a dear, old friend, of Calixta’s, Alcee Laballiere, arrives at her home during the roaring, thunderous storm, they take no time at all getting passionately reacquainted: “He pushed her hair back from her face that was warm and steaming. Her lips were read and moist as pomegranate seed. Her white neck and a glimpse of her full, firm bosom disturbed him powerfully. As she glanced up at him the fear in her liquid blue eyes had given place to a drowsy gleam that unconsciously betrayed a sensuous desire. He looked down into her eyes and there was nothing for him to do but to gather her lips into a kiss” (qtd. in Schilb and Clifford 656). Furthermore, this passionate kiss quickly turns into intense, passionate lovemaking: “When he touched her breasts they gave themselves up in quivering ecstasy, inviting his lips. Her mouth was a fountain of delight. And when he possessed her, they seemed to swoon together at the very borderland of life’s mystery. He stayed cushioned upon her, breathless, dazed, enervated, with his heart beating like a hammer upon her. With one hand she clasped his head, her lips lightly touching his forehead. The other hand stroked with a soothing rhythm his muscular shoulders” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 657). After this intense lovemaking, and after the storm clouds lifted up, Alcee left, and they were both as happy as larks. In fact, Calixta is so happy that when her husband and her son, Bobinot and Bibi, come home from the general store after the storm cleared up, there is great happiness in the home: “She clasped Bibi and was kissing him effusively. Bobinot’s explanations and apologies which he had been composing all along the way, died on his lips as Calixta felt him to see if he were dry, and seemed to express satisfaction at their safe return. Bobinot and Bibi began to relax and enjoy themselves, and when the three seated themselves at table they laughed much and so loud that anyone might have heard them as far away as Laballiere’s” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 658).
Calixta and Bobinot are not the only ones with marriage problems. Alcee Laballiere and his wife are also experiencing problems. This is evident in Alcee’s behavior toward Calixta, and how he is encouraging his wife to stay longer on her small vacation with the babies: “He told her not to hurry back, but if she and the babies like it at Biloxi, to stay a month longer. He was getting on nicely; and though he missed them, he was willing to bear the separation a while longer – realizing that their health and pleasure were the first things to be considered” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 658). Furthermore, Alcee’s wife, Clarisse, was enjoying herself and was not eager to return home: “The society was agreeable; many of her old friends and acquaintances were at the bay. And the first free breath since her marriage seemed to restore the pleasant liberty of her maiden days. Devoted as she was to her husband, their intimate conjugal life was something which she was more than willing to forego for a while” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 658). Alcee probably did love his wife to a degree, but he wanted her to stay away for a little while longer (maybe so he could see Calixta a few more times). Alcee’s sudden burst of happiness in his letter toward his wife is not because he is feeling passionate love toward Clarisse – rather, it is the happiness and euphoria that he is feeling from his passionate lovemaking that he had with Calixta. Alcee and Clarisse’s marriage problems are evident in Kate Chopin’s “The Storm.”
No, I do not believe that all stories will reinforce the dominant values of a society. I have read so many stories that always go against traditional values of society in order to challenge them. Kate Chopin is doing just that in “The Storm.” Chopin is not reinforcing society’s dominant values in the story; that is, how extramarital affairs are always found out in families, and that punishment quickly follows. This did not happen in “The Storm.” Neither Calixta nor Alcee were punished for their brief, passionate love affair, and their families did not suffer because they did not have any knowledge of the event. If society’s dominant values were reinforced in the story, then Chopin would have placed something in her story that sent this message. However, she did the opposite, which makes her readers think about what is and is not right in society’s eyes.
I believe that if the story was based on real life, the affair between Calixta and Alcee would have been discovered. Furthermore, their marriages probably would have dissolved and it would have affected their children. Their families would be broken, and this would be their punishment. However, if this were real life, I would not want to see their families destroyed by Calixta and Alcee’s sudden decision to make love. I do not condone extramarital affairs, but I hate to see families destroyed – especially seeing children suffer from the breakup of their parents. If it were real life, and the affair is not found out (and does not continue), then it should not destroy the families. I know this sounds like a horrible thing to say, but seeing families destroyed is awful in my opinion. If Calixta and Alcee never reveal this secret, then their families will never found out. Furthermore, what is to say Bobinot and Clarissa have not done the same thing? Ignorance is bliss – especially for families with problems. And, if this ignorance stays ignorance in real life, then it might go a long way to heal the rifts in the family. More than likely, though, life will not be kind and extramarital sins will be found out, even though happiness was the short-term effect.
In Kate Chopin’s, “The Storm,” Chopin exposes the problems of families and how the sudden decision to make love quickly turned around the families dispositions toward each other for the better.
In Kate Chopin’s, “The Storm,” everyone was very happy and ignoring the obvious problems that existed in their families. In fact, everyone was just too happy, and I found it quite disturbing. Both of the families (Bobinot’s family and Alcee’s family) were jovial with not a care in the world, even though both families had obvious problems that needed to work out. Let me start with Bobinot’s family. Bobinot and his wife, Calixta, have problems in their marriage that manifests itself to the reader during the storm. When a dear, old friend, of Calixta’s, Alcee Laballiere, arrives at her home during the roaring, thunderous storm, they take no time at all getting passionately reacquainted: “He pushed her hair back from her face that was warm and steaming. Her lips were read and moist as pomegranate seed. Her white neck and a glimpse of her full, firm bosom disturbed him powerfully. As she glanced up at him the fear in her liquid blue eyes had given place to a drowsy gleam that unconsciously betrayed a sensuous desire. He looked down into her eyes and there was nothing for him to do but to gather her lips into a kiss” (qtd. in Schilb and Clifford 656). Furthermore, this passionate kiss quickly turns into intense, passionate lovemaking: “When he touched her breasts they gave themselves up in quivering ecstasy, inviting his lips. Her mouth was a fountain of delight. And when he possessed her, they seemed to swoon together at the very borderland of life’s mystery. He stayed cushioned upon her, breathless, dazed, enervated, with his heart beating like a hammer upon her. With one hand she clasped his head, her lips lightly touching his forehead. The other hand stroked with a soothing rhythm his muscular shoulders” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 657). After this intense lovemaking, and after the storm clouds lifted up, Alcee left, and they were both as happy as larks. In fact, Calixta is so happy that when her husband and her son, Bobinot and Bibi, come home from the general store after the storm cleared up, there is great happiness in the home: “She clasped Bibi and was kissing him effusively. Bobinot’s explanations and apologies which he had been composing all along the way, died on his lips as Calixta felt him to see if he were dry, and seemed to express satisfaction at their safe return. Bobinot and Bibi began to relax and enjoy themselves, and when the three seated themselves at table they laughed much and so loud that anyone might have heard them as far away as Laballiere’s” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 658).
Calixta and Bobinot are not the only ones with marriage problems. Alcee Laballiere and his wife are also experiencing problems. This is evident in Alcee’s behavior toward Calixta, and how he is encouraging his wife to stay longer on her small vacation with the babies: “He told her not to hurry back, but if she and the babies like it at Biloxi, to stay a month longer. He was getting on nicely; and though he missed them, he was willing to bear the separation a while longer – realizing that their health and pleasure were the first things to be considered” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 658). Furthermore, Alcee’s wife, Clarisse, was enjoying herself and was not eager to return home: “The society was agreeable; many of her old friends and acquaintances were at the bay. And the first free breath since her marriage seemed to restore the pleasant liberty of her maiden days. Devoted as she was to her husband, their intimate conjugal life was something which she was more than willing to forego for a while” (qtd. in Schlib and Clifford 658). Alcee probably did love his wife to a degree, but he wanted her to stay away for a little while longer (maybe so he could see Calixta a few more times). Alcee’s sudden burst of happiness in his letter toward his wife is not because he is feeling passionate love toward Clarisse – rather, it is the happiness and euphoria that he is feeling from his passionate lovemaking that he had with Calixta. Alcee and Clarisse’s marriage problems are evident in Kate Chopin’s “The Storm.”
No, I do not believe that all stories will reinforce the dominant values of a society. I have read so many stories that always go against traditional values of society in order to challenge them. Kate Chopin is doing just that in “The Storm.” Chopin is not reinforcing society’s dominant values in the story; that is, how extramarital affairs are always found out in families, and that punishment quickly follows. This did not happen in “The Storm.” Neither Calixta nor Alcee were punished for their brief, passionate love affair, and their families did not suffer because they did not have any knowledge of the event. If society’s dominant values were reinforced in the story, then Chopin would have placed something in her story that sent this message. However, she did the opposite, which makes her readers think about what is and is not right in society’s eyes.
I believe that if the story was based on real life, the affair between Calixta and Alcee would have been discovered. Furthermore, their marriages probably would have dissolved and it would have affected their children. Their families would be broken, and this would be their punishment. However, if this were real life, I would not want to see their families destroyed by Calixta and Alcee’s sudden decision to make love. I do not condone extramarital affairs, but I hate to see families destroyed – especially seeing children suffer from the breakup of their parents. If it were real life, and the affair is not found out (and does not continue), then it should not destroy the families. I know this sounds like a horrible thing to say, but seeing families destroyed is awful in my opinion. If Calixta and Alcee never reveal this secret, then their families will never found out. Furthermore, what is to say Bobinot and Clarissa have not done the same thing? Ignorance is bliss – especially for families with problems. And, if this ignorance stays ignorance in real life, then it might go a long way to heal the rifts in the family. More than likely, though, life will not be kind and extramarital sins will be found out, even though happiness was the short-term effect.
In Kate Chopin’s, “The Storm,” Chopin exposes the problems of families and how the sudden decision to make love quickly turned around the families dispositions toward each other for the better.
In response to your post about "A love song of J. Alfred Prufrock," I too had to read this poem multiple times. The first time to grip some of the vocabulary. I see your point being valid, thinking that the poem is about a physical encounter. I related more to Heather Brown's interpertation of the poem. She states in her essay that it is actually about the uncertainity of love. The character is actually afraid of all that encases romantic love.In segment, "And how should I then presume? And how should I begin?(par.68/69) He shows his want for love, but his distrust.
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